Episode 70: Born Haunted

Hi Everyone. Welcome to the very last episode of season five of our podcast. I’ll be taking a four week break to rest a wee bit and to prepare episodes and line up guests for season six. So actually, it’s not really that much of a break for me, truth be told I’m not going to replay any old episodes as you can access all five seasons from your favourite free podcasting app anyway. Or, you can listen to them all from our podcast website: www.walkingtheshadowlands.com

But today, for now, I’d like you all to imagine that you are a wee kid, resting in your bed at night when all of a sudden you start hearing noises coming from your bedroom closet. Sounds like any number of horror movie beginnings, or that Disney movie – Monsters Inc. But this is no movie, and these are not blue, cute, lovable furry monsters. This is real life!

Noises turn into voices telling you to ‘let me out!’ or ‘come and join me!’ You lay there terrified and traumatised until you start to see a shadowy – snake-like form slithering out from under your closet door, that has opened by it’self as you watched. Terrified you run crying from your room, your supposed safe haven, and sleep on the couch in the lounge, or on the lounge floor. Every night this happens to you. How would you deal with this as a child? What would you do? Would you do anything differently?

This was my guest’s dilemma – but the question as always is – Are you willing to walking with me into this part of the Shadowlands and see what awaits us there? Good! Then let’s begin.

My guest is the debut author of a book called ‘Born Haunted: My Lifelong Encounters with the Paranormal’ His book has received award nomination from the following places: Best Indie Book Award, Dragonfly Book Awards, and Writer’s Digest Awards.

Nate was born and raised in Fort Wayne, Indiana; where he met his wife and still lives today. He has a professional license in Medication Administration and currently works in the medical field. He’s an expert on paranormal phenomena, occult studies, and Wicca/Witchcraft.

His life-long experiences with the strange and supernatural have brought him great knowledge which he seeks to share with all of his readers. When he isn’t writing or studying the paranormal and occult, he enjoys playing the guitar, gardening and spending time outdoors with his young daughter and wife.

My guest Nate Michael.

Thank you so much for agreeing to speak with us today Nate. I read your book and it was absolutely fascinating. I really felt for you as a little child with all the experiences you went through. Not, not a very pleasant time. Maybe you could start at the beginning and talk us through your journey?

Honestly, my experiences began before I could even remember. My mother explained that when I was an infant she would have a lot of experiences herself.  Holding me, rocking me to sleep at night, those kinds of things. She would have premonitions, if you will. Or dreams that would later come to be true and they were usually kind of devastating. They would involve accidents, or murders in the local area, in our area, that did come to fruition. So, I guess that’s where my beginnings in having these experiences – experiences in the paranormal first started.

From what I can remember I had a lot of encounters, I would call them entities, ghosts, spirits. Beginning at around four or five years of age. That’s about the time that I can remember. It happened before that, but I just couldn’t, I can’t remember it. So I –  speaking on what I can remember I was about four or five years when those experiences began.

Right. So what do you? What do you first remember?

It would be an entity that lived in my closet. I referred to it as an evil spirit, because, that’s what it told me it was. After many nights of being terrorised by it, I finally had asked it. What are you? You know? Go away! What are you doing here? What are you? Something to that extent and it said; “I’m an evil spirit.”

Right. So when you say you were terrorized, what sort of things would happen? Like, you say this entity came from your closet? So would it like open your closet door and come into your room? Did you just feel a presence? Or, how did it manifest itself?

Well it had a lot of – there was a lot of noise that would come from the closet. A lot of calling my name. Asking me to come in. Asking me to let it out.  Those kinds of things. I would frequently sleep on the couch, or the living room floor, ‘cause, I did not want to sleep in my room. And, it got so bad that my Mother and Father took me to my paediatrician at the time, and said he won’t sleep in his room. He’s having a hard time sleeping at night. What can we do? And the paediatrician had recommended that they lock me in my room at night. Shut the door and just kind of tough it out. That I have to understand it’s my room.

So eventually I would leave my room crying and sleep on the couch, or the floor – whatever. But it would call out my name. Ask me to open the door. And then, it would eventually turn into a snake like shadow that would kind of creep out from underneath the crack in the closet door. And that’s usually the point when I would run out of my room and I was done with it for the night. You know? I would sleep on the couch.

Oh that’s absolutely terrifying for a – well for anybody, but especially for a little kid. And of course, as parents we don’t always appreciate what our children are experiencing. Very often we think it’s just – you know, imagination or night terrors. And so we don’t always understand what they’re going through. So, for you obviously, this was a very, very traumatic time.

Yes, absolutely. And, and I have a young daughter myself so…. And, I try to be as scientific about things before I jump to any other conclusion, so you know it kind of makes you wonder. And it is scary, are they – are these things real? And is that really something that they’re seeing. And having had these experiences myself, I know to be much more open minded, and to not dismiss what children say. They, they may be able to see things that we can’t, or hear things – or whatever.

Absolutely! So what finally transpired that this entity ah, declared what he was to you? What brought that about?

So again, I had asked it what are you? Or to leave. What are you doing here? What are you? Something along those lines, and it actually said it was an evil spirit. And I told my parents that. And I, I don’t want to say that they didn’t believe me, but obviously they were trying to – you know, keep calm [inaudible], in spite of everything.

So I guess the real tipping point, when they started to really believe my claims, was one evening when my mother had gotten up out of bed. It was late., very late at night and there was a window pane about – oh on our front door, and it was fogged over. She thought that was a little weird. It wasn’t normally fogged over at that time. So she walked over to it and she noticed in the fog, the condensation in that window pane, that there was a, a expletive word. B word. B i t c h, written in the window pane fog. But, certainly it wasn’t me. I was young. I was asleep on the couch. My dad was asleep. She was the only one up. The doors were locked so there was no explanation. I think that was when they really knew something was, something negative was there in that home with us. 

Well, certainly something that called your mum by, you know, foul language, definitely is not a positive being. And, I remember reading in your book you were only a few feet away from that window.

Yes, I was. And that was one thing that really terrified my mum about that, is that I was right there, you know? I mean, just feet away on the couch. Sleeping on the couch, ‘cause, I couldn’t sleep in my room. Because, of what I was saying, the evil spirit that was in my closet. So, it was very terrifying for her and I think it really disturbed her.

So what happened after that? After that incident?

We had a lot of doors being opened. Lights being turned on when no one was at home – after we turned them off and left. When we came back home, they would be on. Police were called to make sure there was no intruder, but there was no intruder.

My, before my sister was born – shortly after my sister was born, was when we decided to move out of that house. My mum was having a lot of terrifying dreams, a lot of nightmares. And that activity continued with lights and doors being on, unlocked and me continuing on about the evil spirit in my closet. So, we decided to move after my sister was – shortly after my sister was born.

Right. I do remember reading in your book that you said, how you guys had been out one night and you came home and all your windows were – oh, the lights were on. And the front door and the back door were open. Is that right?

Yes. Yes, we’d been out doing some shopping and running some errands. And, when we came home every door in the home was open! Every light was on!  And they are all locked before we left. We were always good about keeping, keeping the doors locked, and those things, so….  It was very strange. Called the police right away.

They came out there, with their pistols drawn. They did a sweep of the home and could not find anything. Nothing was out of place. All the lights on, all the doors open. They were just – it was just alarming to have that to – to know that your home is open to anyone to walk into. And then, who did that? Or, what did that?

Yeah. Really scary and it would have made you all feel quite vulnerable, especially your mum. Because, she would have been extra worried about you and your safety, and being pregnant. Was she pregnant at that stage? Or was that before she was pregnant?

I think that might have been right before she was pregnant. I think she – yeah might have been right before.  

But even so, you know, as a mum I – just myself, I would have been absolutely terrified for you. But, how do you protect your child from something that you can’t see, but you know is there?

Exactly! Exactly. And again it was a time of nineteen – oh I think it was the nineteen-eighties, so…. I don’t think those kind of things were well receipted back then, so – or talked about as much as they are today. So, it was one of those things, you know, you kind of kept secret and you didn’t tell too many outsiders about. People outside of the family.

Right. So after your sister was born you guys moved to a new home?

Yes, yep, yes. We moved to a new home and, of course, there was activity there as well! Not right away. It didn’t start right away, it – I would say within the first month it started. And it was always things you could dismiss, or you know, blame on the wind. Footsteps or something like that. But, things got a little stranger and we couldn’t dismiss them anymore.  So then we knew that the new home we moved into was indeed occupied by another being, spirit, or haunted if you will.

Right. And you don’t feel that it was the entity from the other house followed you?

We don’t.  We don’t believe that it was. I had actually spoken to – when we moved into the home, the new home, I began speaking with some ‘imaginary friends’. And, from my conversations with them, and I believe – I still to this day believe they were very real. One was a native American. One was a former farmer of the land, or what I thought to be of the land. So, I don’t believe it was the same being or entity. I personally don’t.

And there was no – there wasn’t anything saying that it was an evil spirit. Like there was in the previous home, so I think it may be associated with the land there or something. But, definitely activity continued there as well, so….

So these spirit that were your ‘imaginary friends’ did they give you information about their lives?

One was. His name was choowless, so…. And he was, what I perceived to be a native American. And he had told me some things about a river, and there was a river nearby our home that I wasn’t too well aware of after first moving in, obviously. And he had made some comments about the river and some rituals. And, some things they had done. But, I may have been a little too young to understand that, so looking back, I fully understand what that was now. But, the other one was a former – I believe a former land owner, or farmer of the area. But there was some of the things the ‘imaginary friends’ quote, unquote, had spoke to me and what they said.

Right. And obviously you were comfortable with these spirit?

Yes. Very much so, I mean they were friends. I didn’t, I didn’t see them as negative. I didn’t feel anything negative when I was around them. We would play and I can remember playing in the spare room where our toys were kept and things like that. I can remember playing in there with them and asking Chooless and Bobby to play and I don’t remember anything bad. It was never bad. It just was just a friend. It was just friends.

Right, and you would have noticed the difference from your previous experience. You would have known enough then to trust your feelings?

Yeah, yes. I think I would have noticed and I didn’t get that right away. No.

Right. And so, how long were you in this house? And did you keep up communication with these spirits for like, you know? Was it years?

It was several years, yeah. It was – if my memory serves me right, I believe we were in there for approximately oh seven years or so. And I did for a time, but, I grew older and so I kind of stopped doing that, and got interested in some other things. But, my younger sister was growing up. Obviously, from her end. Now she was a toddler and growing older. So she began to play with the same ‘imaginary friends’ quote, unquote. And with the same names and everything!

So, could it be something that she picked up from her older brother, me? Or was she seeing them as well? I believe she may have been seeing them, but…. So, that did continue with my sister. But, we did have other things. We had – One thing that did occur a lot, that was kind of strange, was the toilet paper would be unrolled, nearly nightly. And folded into nice little piles at the end of the toilet. So it was just kind of weird.

We heard a loud bang! It was a door closing late at night. My father thought it was an intruder, but there was no one there. The door was locked. Several experiences in that home.

Yes. Well that toilet paper one must have been very interesting!

It, it’s different. I’m not sure what to make of it. I don’t know what the message was there? Or there was a message? Or was it residual? I’m not really sure what to make of it. But looking back on it, it was interesting for sure. And kind of funny. Kind of funny.

I would say it would be an active, an active spirit, rather than residual. Because, residual is only like a tape recorder playing over and over again. But, this one had intelligence enough to fold the toilet paper. Maybe, that’s the way they used to have it?

Who knows? I don’t know. It’s interesting, very interesting and I do think it’s kind of funny.

It is kind of funny. How did your mum and dad deal with it?

At first again, they tried to brush things off, you know? It was probably the kids. Or, did you guys do this? And we’d say oh no, it was our imaginary friends, and they had some experiences, especially with the door closing as I mentioned. Late at night. Dad got his pistol, his gun out. He went downstairs and he just couldn’t figure it out, the door was completely locked. And, this was one point where they completely knew that, oh boy, there’s activity in this home as well.

So one of those kind of things. You would hear some voices. Occasionally your name being called, so…. I think, I think they began to realize it as well then. The toilet paper was kind of odd and funny, but they had some of their own experiences. Some of the things they haven’t shared with me, so….

Right. I remember in your book that your father had gotten his gun, because he thought that somebody had broken the front door down

Yes. It was very loud. The whole – it was like the walls were shaking. I mean, it was just as if someone had slammed the door as hard as they possibly could. Or kicked it down. Or something of that nature. It wasn’t just a gentle closing of the door. It was extremely forceful, to awaken the whole family and automatically assume the door was being kicked down, or blown down by, by some kind of force.

Yeah. Yeah, well that’s what you’d assume wouldn’t you? Hearing a noise like that. And, to go down and discover nothing. That must have been very perturbing for your dad. Again, ‘cause, how do you protect your family against something that you can’t see?

Exactly, exactly.

So, did you ever talk to your parents about your experiences as you got older? Did you ever discuss what you guys had experienced together?

Yeah, oh yeah. We still talk about it today. I’m very open about it. I know like my father he’s, he doesn’t want to go too deep into things. But, he does not deny it, he – It’s something that we talk about. Something that we lived through. So it’s a big part of our life, and I don’t think that we should dismiss it. I think we should talk about it. It’s something that happened when we were growing up, you know, it shaped certain aspects of our family and our being.  

Oh absolutely. I agree with that. But you know, I understand that your parents came from a more traditionally, religious background, so it must have been hard for them to deal with this?

Yes. We actually had called in a clergyman from a local church. We’d been refused by several churches, because, they said they didn’t believe in that. And my family was traditional. Traditional, modern, Christian. So they would also look that way for answers. And it was very confusing to them. It was very confusing to them.

Yeah, I can imagine it would be, and scary. Like yeah, ‘cause, it didn’t fall in their paradigms of belief. So, they had to like, think outside of the box and accept something that wasn’t a part of their reality. That’s really scary and deal with their children at the same time.

Exactly

So for all of you, it would have been a very confusing, and a very scary time. Your poor mum –  I really feel for her, because, you know she had to like, hold it together for you guys. Not show her fears, so she didn’t pass on her fear to you. And, be in that home, you know? Scary, scary stuff. So there, there you are. You’ve moved past your first experience, onto your second house and you’ve got these imaginary friends, which we know, aren’t imaginary friends. And then what happens from there?

So activity continued. I had one, one experience that really frightened me. A couple of experiences that were very, very frightening to me at the time when I was younger. So I think too, at a younger age you look at things different, so maybe if it happened today it wouldn’t be as frightening. You know, maybe I would approach it differently? I would ask what was going on, instead of being scared and hiding.

So more activity continued. We had a pastor come out from a local church. Again, many refused and said that the paranormal didn’t exist. So we found one – A pastor that, that was stepping – he said, stepping outside his church. Because, him and his wife had, had experiences personally. So he came. He did some prayer over the house. Blessing of the house. He gave us some tips and tricks, if you will, that he had learned.

So the activity kind of – it didn’t stop, but it lessened. And then, it wasn’t too long after that, that we decided to move. So looking back, I don’t know if my parents had called the pastor out, knowing that we were going to be moving? And didn’t want to pass this onto the next person? Or, feel guilty not disclosing it? So, so we did move after the pastor came out and things lessened.

From, from there, how long were you guys in that house?

We were in that house probably, approximately – oh boy, I would say a total of oh ten, a little over ten years. From there, then I grew up and then I entered high school, and we had moved. Not too far away from the second home, but, there were no experiences in the third home. Nothing. Nothing to note.  Again, entered high school. Met my current wife. So then moved out, out of my parent’s home. Got my own apartment and became serious with my girlfriend, who’s now my wife, so that’s kind of where I left off after those experiences in the second home.

Right. And what – so as you grew older and went though high school and then your, your studies, what are of work did you chose to go into?

So, I chose to go into healthcare. I always have a deep desire to be in healthcare. I always wanted to do something – I just knew I needed to be in healthcare. I was a little rebellious in high school and I began to actually start to look into other schools of religion, and other schools of thought. And I sort of had different viewpoints than my parents on life after death, and religious philosophy, and things that I kept secret. And you know, honestly I buried a lot of those paranormal experiences. And, I didn’t want to share those in my twenties and what not. I didn’t want to. I was afraid of what people would think, so I tried to purposely forget those. But, I did always have that interest in it.  And then, I became interested again in the different schools of religion, and thoughts, and always having the inkling to work in healthcare. I knew I wanted to work in healthcare. So after high school pursued some certifications and licenses in healthcare.    

Oh good for you. I mean, having been a nurse for close to 40 years myself, I totally get it. It’s, it’s like – it’s a calling really. You feel drawn to it. And then you stay there, because, you love it. Because, you know you’re making a positive difference to people’s lives.

Yes. You can see, you can see your work unfolding right in front of your eyes.

Yeah. Very satisfying. So, then you met your wife, you got married – oh no. Before you got married you moved in together didn’t you?

Yes

That’s right.

We did things, we did things a little differently. We moved in before we got married. We moved into a rental home together. And, to be honest, she was sceptical at first. I didn’t share my – I didn’t share much of my paranormal experiences with her right off the bat.

Right. Didn’t want to scare her off eh?

Right. I didn’t want to scare her off. I loved her. I still do love her. I didn’t want her too…. I wanted to marry her someday. So I didn’t want her to think oh boy! This guys nuts, and run away. So I actually didn’t tell her the paranormal experiences I had, right away. That came about after a family gathering.  My mother brought it up, because, we started to have paranormal experiences together. My, at the time fiancé – the rental home we were living in, we were having some things, some ghostly activity.

Didn’t you like – correct me if I’m wrong, but I remember reading in your book, which is really well written. That, that you had trouble finding a place and then you found this place that was really cheap to rent?

Yes. We were looking and looking. We could not find anything within our budget, or if there’s something within our budget, it was not as advertised. It was not the pictures that were online. It was much different. So we were having a very hard time, and it seemed as though – that the rental home we got, we ended up signing the lease with, was the last option. It looked like the pictures that were advertised. It was within our budget. Touring it, it was nice. It was decent. It was – it felt comfortable. But, it was again that last option.

But when you….

And then, we didn’t want to put off moving in together.

Oh yeah. Of course, I understand that. Yeah absolutely. But, and when you got – initially walked through your home, you didn’t sense anything about it? Like there was nothing missing?

I didn’t necessarily see anything. Now, I got a feeling

That was my – I said sense. Sorry, that was my kiwi accent.

Right away – ah yes, yes. I got a sense. I got a sense. It was – I describe it as like a think fog. It just kind of felt foggy and the air felt very thick and choked up. I did get that sense right away. But that was before I had told my – at the time fiancé, about my previous paranormal experiences, so I just brushed it off. And again, it was a last option. So I did the move in with her. I wanted to continue that aspect of our, my life. So I just kind of dismissed those feelings and thought oh well, maybe it’s just the dehumidifier in here. Or the air’s too hot or something.  

Right. And that’s a lesson, a lesson in listening to your feelings, isn’t it?

Yes. Absolutely.

So, talk us through how things progressed in the home with you and then with your fiancé?

So, it started out fairly innocuous. You’d hear a lot of footsteps. My wife – at the time my fiancé, she would misplace – Well items were being misplaced, I don’t believe it was her. She would be combing her hair and turn around just for a split second, and then, the comb would be gone. Or, she’d be fiddling on her cell phone and then she would sit it down, turn and come back to it, and it would be gone. And it would be in a totally different place than where she left it. So, it started out with those kind of things.

One thing that stood out in my mind was scratching. We started to hear scratching within the walls. And we had called the landlord out, hoping that maybe he could fix it, or maybe find a reasoning. And, every time he would show up it would stop. Nearly as soon as he would pull in the driveway. And he would look around and say, I can’t hear anything. I can’t see anything. So if you guys weren’t such good tenants, you pay the rent. You have good upkeep on the home, I wouldn’t believe you. But, there’s just nothing I can do. So, that’s where it started.

That’s an experience I hear quite often, is that often people start by hearing scratching in the walls and they think it’s rats or some other animal in the inside of the walls.

Yes, and it’s, it sounded similar. Like maybe a racoon or something had gotten in the wall, but it was just odd. And it would also seem to kind of follow you from room to room.

Oh? That’s interesting.

But, you couldn’t quite pin point it and say oh it’s right here in this spot. It’s just I would hear that scratching throughout the room. We would go into the other room and still hear it. So we thought maybe it’s in here?

That must have been quite frustrating for you both? And not really thinking that it was anything nefarious, or ah, otherworldly?

Right. Exactly, exactly.

And how did it? What happened after that? How did it escalate?

So, I think at that point again, we’d had a family gathering and my fiancé had mentioned that she thought that maybe the home we were renting was haunted. And of course, my mother chimed in quite quickly and was like well let me tell you a story…. Let me tell you about how we grew up. And my wife, fiancé at the time, didn’t know those things. Again, I didn’t disclose them to her. I didn’t want to scare her off! So, it was, it was a relief as well, because I think having those experiences together, in the rental home we were sharing. It turned her into a believer.

Right. I was going to say, how did she handle your Mum’s disclosure? That must have been – you must have been going oh no!

Oh yes. Oh yes, I was absolutely mortified when she was telling all these stories, and you know, all the experiences we’d had. A lot of things we’ve already discussed in here and in my book, and I’m like oh no, she’s going to run away! But she was just like, oh yeah I believe that, because, we’re having experiences in our home that are similar. Doors closing and similar. Yeah, I totally believe that. I think if you had mentioned or asked me that five years ago, and I wouldn’t believe you, ‘cause, I would have been a sceptic back then. But having these experiences together, I’m a total believer.

Awesome, so that was quite a relief for you then?

Yes, yes. And then of course that night I had to apologize. I had to apologize and say I’m sorry I didn’t tell you. I just love you too much. I didn’t want to scare you away!

Aw that’s so sweet. I bet she took it that way as well?

Oh yes, yes. She took it great. She’s a great woman, I love her dearly.

So, so after your mum made this disclosure, did things escalate?

Yeah, yeah I would say….

Or did you just become more aware of them?

I think, I think we became more aware of them. I stopped denying the previous experiences, and I accepted them. So I think we opened our eyes then and accepted what was going on. So in that sense, yes it did escalate. And it even affected a visitor I had one time. He had – he came over and right away he said; “Nate, I think this house is haunted. Has anyone died here?” I don’t know, you know?

So, we went down to the basement, and we were hanging out in the basement. I was showing him around. And then we heard the back door being unlocked. The door handle being fumbled around and then opened. And then closed. And then locked. Some footsteps and so we figured oh, my fiancé’s home. Footsteps around the house as if she was getting home, walking around. Footsteps into the kitchen and the sink turns on.

 And my friend and co-worker says, I don’t want to be in the basement anymore, let’s go up. Let’s get out of here. So we run upstairs and the sinks still running, but there’s no one there! And she was not home! So, that was one experience that really stood out in my mind. Also, I had that friend and co-worker there to verify that I wasn’t crazy and this was really happening.

How did he react to that?

He left.

When you got up the top and the tap was running?

He left. He, he turned white as a ghost, and I don’t know what excuse. I can’t quite remember the excuse he made, but it was clearly a made up excuse. I don’t blame him. I understand. He left and that was it! He never came back to the home. 

Wow. Yeah, that would have been pretty freaky for somebody who’s never experienced any – and even for you, even though you’ve experienced it all, to have something that clear, and to have physical proof. You know? With the tap running, is quite a different thing all together. It’s a different kettle of fish.

Yes. And it, and it was like wow. How are you going to do that to me? You’re my good friend and you just ran out and left me with the tap running.  

So, what did you do after that? After he left, what did you do? Did you leave the house? Did you stay in the house? Did you – obviously turned the tap off?

Yes, we turned the tap off. That was one of the first things I did. No, we stayed. We had a rental agreement so we had to meet so many months, or whatever, there in the home. But we stayed and activity continued. But, I became what I would call obsessed with the home. I wanted to, I wanted to find an answer. I wanted to find a reason for what was going on. I was also beginning to have nightmares, very specific to the home. About maybe some things that could be related to what was going on in the home.

So, the nightmares were increasing. Increasing in intensity and I began to do a lot of research on the home. And the land, and the surrounding land. Again, I would say I almost became obsessed with the home and the area.

And what did you find in your research?

So in my research, I discovered that the land that the home sat on back in the seventeen-hundreds, was part of a fort.  And, when I looked at maps with my – current maps, with my home and compared them to historical maps of the fort they aligned perfectly with the words; ‘Indian Hanging Grounds’! And I feel that, that may have attributed to maybe some of the energy in the home, and certainly some of those dreams. Because, I was having dreams about tortured Native Americans. Native American Indians.

Oh wow, certainly sounds, from, from….

The energies – Anything that harmful done to another human being, it’s got to – it has to leave some sort of energy behind.

Oh yes. Absolutely has to. Oh that’s dreadful, those poor people. Did you ever try talking to the spirit? Or spirits, do you think there was more than one in your home?

I do feel that it was more than one. I feel there may have been multiple, because in my research I uncovered that there was a murder took place, in the home! So, I do believe there were multiple entities – or maybe even something beyond what was formally a person. Maybe something, think elemental, or

Interdimensional?

You know, just born out of pure negativity, or something. So I do believe that. 

That actually brought a thought to my mind, when you talked about the Indian hanging ground. And I wonder, if it was placed there, because, of the energies that were in that specific spot? Like if they were drawn to use that area, because – or they were influenced by whether it was an elemental, or an Interdimensional being? Because, that’s the energy they feed off of?

Yes, exactly. I wonder the exact same thing. It’s interesting. It’s fascinating, but it’s scary at the same time.

Very scary. Very scary. So did you, did you ever feel unsafe, like were these experiences negative? Or did they just want your attention?

No. I feel that it was negative. I, we had one experience, an experience that ultimately led us to leaving the home. Breaking the lease and getting out of there. And that was, one evening my fiancé was at work and I was at home watching a sports game, and I had a strong desire to go to the basement to get a bottle of beer. Which would not have been kept in the basement. But, I just knew it was down there and I had to go down there and get it.

And when I got to the bottom of the stairs, I tripped over and I completely blacked out! I don’t recall falling down, or what happened. I, I blacked out. In the mean time, my fiancé finished her shift at work and she had come home. Right away, she knew something was wrong in the house. Something was off. It was dark, where as normally I would have this light or that light on. And it wasn’t on, and she could just sense something.

She walked in the home and noticed the light coming from the basement. And, she walked down to the basement and saw me sitting there, with just a single candle. And she said, she knew right away it wasn’t me. She could tell by my facial expression and my colour, it just was not me. And she asked something to the extent of, are you ok? What are you doing down here? You’re scaring me.

And she said my face began to contort and kind of grimace. And she then asked, who the hell are you? ‘Cause, she knew it wasn’t, it wasn’t me. And out of my mouth, came a voice which wasn’t mine. It was in a difference accent. It was in a different tone. It told her not to worry about me, that I would be ok. That it’s name was ‘evil’, and it was destruction.

And that ultimately led us to leaving the home. After that occurred, I ‘woke’ up several hours later. I had a massive headache, I felt nauseous. And my fiancé was sitting over me, and I, I was just – you know? Confused. I said, oh I must have had a bad dream? And she said no honey, I think you were possessed.

Wow, wow. That would have been very scary for her. Did you, prior to that, did you find your thoughts changing? Were you having negative thoughts of harming, or self harming, or anything like that?

No. I would say that my demeanor changed slightly. A little more aggressive. I wouldn’t say necessarily say thoughts of harming. But again, I was becoming obsessed with research, and it that there was a lot of harm and a lot of negativity. And having those dreams, coupled with the experience of this being speaking through my mouth, I just knew – I knew it was time to get out of there. I think I was more afraid that I may begin to experience those, those thoughts.

Right, right. ‘Cause, to me it kind of feels like a web. Drawing you in. Drawing you in.

Yes, exactly.

So you were probably very smart to get out when you did, and when you – I guess your landlord wasn’t particularly surprised when you left?

No, he wasn’t too surprised. Many folks had been through that rental home and they did not stay long. Many folks broke the lease. Left without notice. So he wasn’t particularly surprised. But, on the same hand I didn’t quite bring up I think there was something going on with this home, because, I don’t know that he would have fully acknowledged it. That he was even fully aware of it.

Right. Because, it makes him liable, I guess?

Exactly, exactly.

And, and so, after you moved out how did you resolve all of these experiences in your life? Have you had any since?

Not any experiences in my home. Personally I believe that these types of entities, beings, spirits – whatever you wish to call them, are around all the time. I think they’re everywhere. 

They are.

And sometimes you may come into contact with them in certain places. So no, I don’t have any experiences in my home currently. But, where my wife works – she works at a bar, and I’ve had some experiences there. Actually, recently I had some experiences with knocking and thought somebody was in the kitchen in the bar, so…. And there was no one there!  But no, nothing in my home. Everything has since calmed down. But those, having those experiences definitely lead to a greater interest. Wanting to do more research and to understand the paranormal and these things, which lead to other research and things, and schools of thought. Ideas on Wicca and stuff like that.

Right and so now you’re at a place – a space in your life where if you had an experience like that again you would know what to do. You would know how to deal with it, and you wouldn’t have the same fear that you had previously. And what I really liked – I mean your book was really good reading. But what I really liked about it, was your end chapter where you talked about things people can do. And how they can deal with it. And, I think that’s really important. And I know for a lot of people it could make a big difference, because, who knows? Whoever brought your book, may have brought it because of the same sort of things.

Exactly. Exactly and that’s what I hoped to do. And looking back, I wish I would have had some of these pieces of information. And they’re not anything you know, too revelationary, they’re very simple things you can do. Some ideas to help with those paranormal occurrences. So, I wish I had those. Little pieces of information to help me deal with what I was experiencing.

Right. And so, I guess your deciding to write this book was part of your healing and letting go process, yeah.

You’re absolutely correct. You’re absolutely correct. That is absolutely true. Again it’s something I kept secret. I didn’t tell many, I didn’t tell nearly anyone. So to get that out, I wanted to get it out to the whole world. And you’re right, it has. I feel it has healed myself and made me better. And helped put me on the path I need to be. 

Right, and now you can put that in perspective of, I was a child. I didn’t know any better. I didn’t know how to deal with my emotions. Now, I’m an adult I can look back and you know?

Exactly.

Do you feel that, that spirit that said they were an evil spirit was actually a spirit? Or do you think that they were just a nasty, nasty human spirit who wanted to scare you, because, you were a little kid, and he could?

You know, looking back, honestly I think it may have been someone who just really wanted to scare me. Just because they could. I don’t know that it was truly evil. Because, all it really said – it only said it was evil. And then it wrote foul language and things like that. But other than that, all it could get to me at, was through fear. Someone just masquerading as something truly evil. Just wanting to truly scare a little child. Yes, I agree with that.

Yes. When I read that, the first thought that came to my mind was, oh that’s not an evil spirit. This is just a nasty, nasty human spirit, who was a nasty, mean person in life. And liked terrifying and tormenting those around him, and he’s just continued in this – in the next spirit – he hasn’t moved over. He’s just earthbound and he’s just nasty. He’s hurting. It’s been my experience that spirit like that, are like that, because, they are generally hurting. They’re in pain of some description.

Yes, I think so. Yeah.

And, and I guess looking back, having the perspective and knowledge that you have now – while it doesn’t ease the fears that you had at that time, you understand it a little bit more, with an adult’s perspective.

Yes. You can go into it saying, is it truly an evil spirit? Or is it someone who’s had some extreme hardships in life? And is just trying to be a nasty individual?

Yes, right.

Exactly right.

Very cool. So where do you go from here?

Oh from there, the wife and I got married. We had a kid. I worked in healthcare over ten years. Again not any paranormal experiences in the home. So out in the public somewhat I run into these things. I think we all do. And then began to get interested in Wicca and Pagan traditions and other schools of thoughts and types of religious ideology. 

Right and that would also have given you more tools to help deal with spiritual parasites, and, and earthbound spirits. And stuff that haven’t moved on. So have you had any experiences at work? With clients?

I have. I have had experiences at work. Nothing negative. Everything very positive.  A lot of – ah, I worked in Geriatrics, in a nursing home for quite some time. So I had the opportunity of being by patient’s bedside as they were experiencing the death process. And I had a lot of experiences through that. Folks always seem to claim – witnessing a bright, white light at the end of a tunnel. I’ve had folks talking about family members that were in the room. And there’s just things that you can just sense, and kind of pick up on. You can feel someone else in the room.  And we’ve had some other, what I call playful, ghostly type activity, from what we believe to be former residents of the nursing facility. See I think there’s a lot of activity in the medical field. I think it’s something that goes on frequently.

Yeah. I know, I certainly had my share in my years of nursing. And I know that geriatric nursing is very, very difficult. Like physically it’s hard, but, also emotionally. Because, you get attached to those that you’re working with, and, and you care about them. For the most part. Most nurses

Yes, they become part of the family, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah and a lot of them don’t have any family, so you become their family for them.

Exactly, exactly. You’re exactly right. 

Yeah, yeah. So where do you think you’re going to go from here. So, you’ve written the book, it’s out there. What are your plans for the future?

Plans for the future? I want to continue my studies in Wicca and become the best person that I can, and pass that onto my daughter. I’d like to maybe write another book. But, it’s not something I’m jumping into right away. I have some ideas I’m tossing around that kind of tie into paranormal, but not so much directly related to the paranormal. But, we’ll see where the future goes. Who knows where the future’s going to take us, and I’m just going to ride that out and try to make the best of it and be as positive as I can.   

 That’s really cool. So Nate, thank you so much for your time today. It’s been a really interesting discussion. Thank you for your book, it’s really beautifully written and would you – would you like to tell people about your website and where they can –  and your social media that you’re on?

Yeah. So first of all, thank you for having me on. It’s, it’s been an honour. It’s been a pleasure. I appreciate it, thank you. And to all the listeners out there. You can get the book on Amazon. It’s available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. And on my website. I do international shipping from my website, which is www.bornhaunted.com then Facebook. The Facebook page is Born Haunted by Nate Michael. And then my author page is Nate Michael. Sorry, I had to think which one there so…. Facebook page is Born Haunted by Nate Michael and then my author is Nate Michael.

Are you on Instagram and twitter or anything like that? Or just the Facebook.

I’m not at the moment, but that’s in the works.

Awesome, so you have a really great night Nate. Thank you very much for your time.

Alright, thank you I appreciate it. Have a good day.

I can’t begin to imagine how terrifying it must have been for Nate as a child growing up, terrorised by unknown entities. How would you even begin to process that as a child? Even as an adult? I’d like to thank Nate for sharing his experiences with us all in this episode

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