Kia ora, hi everyone. Welcome back to the second episode of season 9. It’s really lovely to have you here with us today. Myths and legends, we hear those terms frequently, but what are they really and are they the same thing? Basically a legend contains some facts, but over time becomes exaggerated, often to the point that real people or events take on a larger, larger than life quality. A myth is a story that isn’t supposedly based on fact, but is actually more symbolic than anything. Sometimes though, in my opinion, the line between myth and legend is sometimes very blurry and indistinct.

Every single culture in this world has their own cultural myths and legends, but some of them actually are found world-wide. In this episode we are going to talk about some myths and legends found in the Americas, mostly. Throughout the world though, there are stories and legends of huge, hairy, ape-like creatures that have persisted over the centuries. Partly through retellings of cultural myths and legends. And of actual reported sightings of such creatures. These beings go by many different names. In North America, they are called Sasquatch, or the more common name of Bigfoot. Across the ditch in Aussie, they are called the Yowie. In New Zealand one of the names is the Moehau Man

On this episodes page, of the podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com you can see a link to a page that has a huge list of names for this creature.  So, you can see that this being goes by many, many names throughout the world. So, in this episode we’ll talk a little bit about Bigfoot. Who many of us regard not in the realm of myth or legend, but actually, as a real living being. Albeit, a very elusive one. Because, my guest George is a very keen Bigfoot researcher as well.

I suggest, that you make yourself comfortable. Get a hot or cold drink, a rug to put over your lap, if it’s cold where you are and get ready to walk into this part of the shadowlands with my guest as our guide. Let’s see where this episode takes us. Are you ready? Then, let’s begin.

My guest today, George Lunsford, is an author and podcast host. He has done many jobs from being a maintenance man to making explosives for the government. He was also an actor for many years doing indie feature films, commercials, book trailers, Public service videos, and even a music video.

He’s experienced many paranormal and unexplained events growing up, beginning as a young man with a visitation from his great-grandmother, when she passed away. She came to say goodbye to him. Also during his time in the Navy at sea.

George has also always had an interest in researching and studying the Bigfoot, and indeed in myths and legends. So much so, that he wrote four books in a “Legends, Myth, Monsters, and Ghost” series. He did this, because, he wanted to share the stories he’s heard and researched from all over the US with the world. He wants people to know that there is so much out in the world, then in that little bubble we all live in. My guest George Lunsford

Bigfoot, Legends, & Myths

Marianne: Thank you very much for talking with us today George. It’s really lovely to have you on our podcast and on this episode. And you’ve been a very busy man. You have five books now is it?

George: Four. Four books

Is it four books?

Yes Ma’am.

I just finished your first book and it’s really full of Legends and myths and ghost stories.

I hope you enjoyed it?

Yeah, really good. What I found particularly interesting in your first book, it’s all about the States. And you go through each state and share legends and stories and myths from that state. But what I found really interesting was that you simply share the legends you don’t generally, as a general rule, put your interpretation on it. You just share it as it’s told,

Right, right.

Or share links, which I actually quite like. So really, what you’re doing is you’re just recording the stories of posterity and letting people make up their own minds.

Well, now on the regular stories for the States, I took any variations. Say one story had a couple of different variations. I put them all together into one story. So we wouldn’t lose the essence of the story itself.

You compiled them. So that’s actually a good thing, because it still preserves the basis of the story. And of course, any witness is going to have their own version, aren’t they? And it’s like, what’s that game that people sometimes play? Chinese whispers.

So when you look at the different Indian tribes I used in the different books. The first one had the Cherokee, the third one had the Sioux. And the fourth one has the Inuit. Now, their stories, there’s no variations to them. The story you read now is the same one that was told by their great, great, great, great, great, grandfather. The Indian tribes all keep their stories much more pure and hand it down just in a real direct way. So there’s no variation allowed into the stories.

Right. And it’s an oral tradition, isn’t it? With most Indian cultures, I know it is with the Māori here in New Zealand. It was an oral tradition. They didn’t have a written tradition until the European came. So the stories were taught and handed down verbatim.

Yes, I have a lot of respect for it. Because, it is pure. It is the pure story.

Yeah. Absolutely. Maybe we could start there. Well, actually, first off, let’s talk a little bit about your background. Maybe you could tell us, George, how you came into this area of the supernatural and paranormal and things that go bump in the night? As I like to say, how did you get interested in this?

Well, I’ve always been kind of an odd child when I was young, and I guess the first supernatural thing that happened was I was laying in my bed one night asleep and probably around two o’clock in the morning, or three o’clock in the morning. Something like that. I woke up because I felt something in the room. So I woke up and my great-grandmother was sitting on the end of my bed. I could see through her. So something wasn’t quite right there. And I didn’t get scared. It was just real calm, but I could smell her perfume, and she said she wanted to come by and tell me by that she was going home and that she loved me. The next morning we woke up and that day we found out she had passed away that night.

Oh, well, that’s really sweet. And that’s not an uncommon thing. Actually, I’ve heard similar stories so many, many times, and our loved ones will always find some way of letting us know that they’re around. But that must have had such an impact on you, at that young age.

It did. It made me feel sad that she was gone, but it made me feel good that she come by the tell me that.

And also there would have been the comfort that she lived on.

Well, I’ve been a believer all my life. So that part of it was just confirmed. Not that it surprised me, but it’s confirmed that. Yes, there is a heaven.

Right. So then from there, you’ve had quite an interesting life. You were in the military for a while. Is that correct?

Yes, ma’am.

Working with explosives. Did I have that right?

Well, kind of. I went into the Navy and I became a gunners mate. But, I had some adventures in the Navy. I went to twenty-seven different islands and countries. One war zone, in four years. I’ve seen stuff in Bermuda Triangle. I seen a UFO. Then I got out and ended up going to work for a company called Jet Research Center, where I started out making the explosives. I made the destruct systems for Triton and Titan missiles. I made penetration charges, cutting charges, oil perforators. Was in a little bit when we made the handheld bunker Buster Rockets, the dual detonating rocket. I went from the making the stuff to being a quality Inspector of them. Where I actually got to blow stuff up and do all the measurements and all that good stuff.

And then, I left there. I did all kinds of different jobs. Everything from maintenance man. I made gear boxes. I did quality inspection on gear boxes. I did all kinds of different stuff. And I acted for fifteen years on the side. I was an actor too. And I made some independent feature films. I made some commercials, music video, all kinds of stuff, PSA’s, book trailers and shorts. And all kinds of stuff. And I was writing scripts while I was acting. I was writing short scripts. Right. And then I got asked by a guy called me up and asked me to write a script for a NASCAR guy. And so I wrote the last story in a script for Larry McRaynolds. He was Dale Earnhardt – I don’t know if you know who these people are or not?

No, I don’t.

But, he was the crew chief for Dale Earnhardt before he won the Daytona 500.

Oh? Okay. Sorry. My listeners who are into racing, they’ll know who you’re talking about, right?

Yeah. And I just decided I wanted to write books. So I started writing books.

And you’ve written four of them. Really good books. We’ll get into them a little bit later. But, I’d like to – when I was researching you, I listened to a few podcasts. And on one of the podcasts, you talked about an experience you had while you were at sea, with a mysterious fog. Maybe you could share that story? Because I’m pretty sure my audience would find that very interesting.

Well, that was in the Bermuda Triangle. I was on an aft look out. I spent a lot of time on aft look out. But, I was on aft lookout and the guy and board look out gives me a call. He says something’s weird up here. Take a look up here. I leaned over the side of the ship. And I’ve seen it. And over the horizon, probably ­– the horizon is ten miles from the ship. So, over the horizon, about twelve miles, you could see a little grey spot on the ocean. And we got closer to it, closer to it.  We got within about five miles of it. You couldn’t see the side ends of it. On the sides, it went from as far as you could see, on both sides. And as high as you could see.

Of course, I was still on aft look out. And as the ship went into the fog bank, now, fog banks is nothing unusual. They’re on the ocean a lot. But, this one was weird. It had a weird feeling to it. And as the ship went into the fog bank – We was moving about ten, twelve knots. And as it went in, all the electronics and electrical stuff stopped working! And started spinning and all the way down the ship till it finally got to me on aft lookout.  

And while we were in the fog, the hair on your arms would stand up and it felt like a charge, like electrical charge. Your face and in your hair and everything. And as the ship come out, the other side of the fog, everything comes back on like it was normal. I was looking around. I looked back, go back to my post, and it was gone! The fog bank was gone. But the water had got choppy and the sky was kind of a greyish tint. And before that, when we were outside before we ever went into the fog, the water was smooth. It was a beautiful day. But after we passed through that, it changed everything.

Wow. So, did anybody that you talked to about it, did they experience the same sort of physical reaction that you did?

Everybody had that same feel to it, the electrical charge. But, we never talked about –  nobody ever brought it back up after we had experienced it. Back in those days, and even today, those guys, they don’t talk about stuff like that.

Right. Of course.

They say no, no, but, I got a big mouth, so . . .

I have talked to a couple of other sailors. They were gentlemen that were on the USS Nimitz group during the Tic-Tac videos that came out. And they, they pretty much said the same things. You don’t generally talk about stuff like this. Or, if you do, you ‘re made fun of it. Yeah.

Well, they want to discourage you constantly. And like I said, a lot of the older guys –  like I served with then, they’re, they’re – It’s taboo. You don’t say nothing about the night. They don’t admit it, I mean, that’s the way it is.  That was in the eighties. It was a whole different world back then!

Yeah, it was. Now., did you guys lose any time at all going through this fog?

Not that I could tell, because my watch and everything stopped.

Stopped. Yeah, right.

Not that we lost any time. It was just a really weird experience. Nothing major. It’s just different.

Just different. And do you have any thoughts on the Bermuda Triangle? Because, there’s so much that goes on in the Bermuda Triangle. And It’s something that I actually haven’t covered in this podcast. And there’s lots of schools of thought about. And there are other triangles throughout the world.

There is.

Actually, the Bermuda Triangle is only one of them. But, for those listeners who aren’t, the Bermuda Triangle is an area of, I don’t know? So many miles. Going from the Baihimi Islands, isn’t it? To Florida, to somewhere else?

Yeah, somewhere over there.

Anyway, it’s in that area. And ships have gone missing. Planes have gone missing. People have experienced all sorts of electrical anomalies in that area. And George’s experience was obviously one of them. So, there’s been all sorts of – Let’s see what’s the right word? There’s been all sorts of theories put forward about what it is. Ranging from electrical anomalies, to things under the water that are causing these electrical anomalies. Pyramids, and crystals, and stuff like that. To UFOs, to

[inaudible]

– sorry, what was that one?

Methane pockets.

Methane pockets. Now, that’s one I haven’t heard.

They said that – Well, they believe that they have something to do with it. Because, as a methane pockets bursts, it changes the buoyancy of the water. So, if you’re on top of the water and that happens, it’ll just pull you down. And then, it changes covers you back up again.

It’s very valid for the sea, but not for the triangles that are over the land.

No. I mean, I don’t think that there’s one single thing causes it at all. I think combination of things. I mean, there’s been talk of portals. There’s been talk of UFOs coming down and snatching stuff up, but I don’t know about all that? I think it’s just a really weird part of the world. Just like the Dragons triangle over towards Japan. You’ve got the Alaskan Triangle, it’s all [inaudible], and you’ve got all kinds of creatures in there. You’ve got all kinds of disappearances and everything happens up there.

I haven’t actually heard of – Are you talking about the Alaskan one? Or, the Chinese one?

I was talking about the Alaskan one.

Okay. I hadn’t actually heard about that one. I heard about the Chinese one, but that’s really interesting. There are, of course, schools of thought, that they are portals. And yeah, it’s really a very interesting subject. And I remember, I first heard about the Bermuda Triangle many, many decades ago. In the seventy’s, I think. And it really fascinated me. And I remember reading one chap’s experience. Where he was flying his plane and he had this white out. And just everything whited out, and he couldn’t see the horizon. And he couldn’t see the sea or the sky. And they don’t know what caused it. But obviously, he made it safely home, because, he was telling the story. But I remember that caught my interest, yeah.  I wasn’t aware that, that was in the Bermuda Triangle. I must have missed reading that when I listened to it? Because, I was actually doing stuff while I was listening. That’s really interesting. How long were you at sea for actually, as a sailor.

I was in the Navy for four years.

Four years. You would have seen a few things during your time at sea, I imagine?

Oh yeah. I’ve seen some weird stuff.

Just so you know, your voice keeps going in and out. I’m not sure it’s gone down again.

Is that better?

Yes, that’s perfect. Have you had any other experiences that you couldn’t explain while you were in the Navy?

The biggest one was probably a UFO we’ve seen in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

It was in the ocean or above the ocean.

Well, when we’ve seen it, it was about eight miles away from the ship, and all you could see was like a circle of lights. And radar never seen it. Sonar never seen it. Nothing ever electronic picked it up at all. But we watched it. It would stand stationary and it would go back and forth. And then forward, back. And then back and forth. It stopped. And it kept doing this one motion for a little while. We watched it for almost five minutes. Then all of a sudden, that thing, it shot straight up in the air. And that was it. It was just a really strange thing, almost like it was searching something.

Wow. That would have been really, that would have been really interesting. And of course, back then, you wouldn’t say a word about it. It wasn’t reported. Not like today where they just brought in that it’s okay for people to report their sightings. So, that’s a big turnaround for the Navy. So you guys had to carry – Was there any sort of debriefing for you guys that had seen it?

No, not really. It happened about it. It was another one of those late night things that happened. So there was a man, on the crew on the bridge. There was two couple of lookouts, and I was one of those. And that was it. That’s all that would have seen it. I know me and look out seen it for sure, because we were talking back and forth and asking combat systems if they seen anything. And they kept saying, no, there’s nothing out there. We were in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. There was no other ships around. There was no other planes around. Nothing.

Wow. That’s really interesting. Very interesting. So that would have been a bit unsettling I imagine, for a while?

It was a trip!

For me personally, I’ve seen UFO’s my entire life. I’ve had experiences with beings. But, for somebody who doesn’t have that, it can be quite a life-altering experience actually. It makes you question what you know, as reality.

I’m too hard headed for that.

Let’s get onto your books, then. What made you start to write books about the subjects that you cover? Then maybe, we could get on to some of your favourite stories. Cryptozoological creatures you’ve covered. And ghost stories that you’ve covered.

Okay. Well, when I was young, we only had three channels on the TV and stuff like that. So, we’d talked to our grandparents and our parents. And they would pass down stories to us, of the area we grew up in. They’d tell us different things. Like we have the Brown Mountain Lights. We have Helensberry,  just different stories about these areas. And as kids, we were ambitious. So we would go to these places, and see if we could see it. And we just don’t, we don’t have that any more. People are too busy with their phones, or TV, or their tablets, or whatever. And I think, I wrote the books so people could pass these stories on to their kids and their grandchildren. Cause, that we’re lacking bad now.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Stories aren’t passed on. I agree with you. Speaking about the Brown Mountain Lights. I lived in North Carolina for a number of years. I was married and I lived in a little town called Waxhaw, near Charlotte. And some friends and my husband and I, went to go and see the Brown Mountain Lights. Because, I wanted to see them. You know, I was fascinated by legends, and stories, and myths. I said, Well, can we go and see them? I’d really like to see them.

We started going up the mountain and this fog came in. And I have never, ever been in a fog that thick in my life! It was absolutely terrifying! I was terrified not for any creature there. But, the fog. You just literally could not see a foot in front of the car. It was that, that dense. And I think we drove about –  we just turned around.

Oh! My friend and her husband got out of the car and walked off down a little ways. And they came running back because they were terrified by something that they heard in the bush, or the forest, or whatever you call it over there? So we came and locked the car, turned the car around and started –  Actually, my girlfriend, Farrah, started driving the car back. Because, the guys couldn’t see. I couldn’t see. She was the only one who could actually see to drive the car back. It was scary. I never got to see them, but it was a really scary experience nonetheless.

That’s pretty good. That’s pretty good. I like that.

But it was deep in the bush, as we would say here in New Zealand. So it was like way out in the country where we were.

Oh, yeah. It’s a crooked old road.

Yeah, it was very windy. The windy road didn’t bother me, because, New Zealand roads are very windy. We’re a small country. And I’m used to driving. Like my husband and I went to visit the Cherokee reservation one time. And he was terrified of the roads because –  But for me, it was just like driving in New Zealand. I was really happy, I was quite comfortable. But he was terrified. Because, you guys in the mountains, your roads are pretty straight for the most part.

Well, that’s where I’m at. I’m in the mountains. That’s for sure.

So you married a lovely Cherokee Lady. Is that correct? Half Cherokee?

She’s half Cherokee, half Cherokee.

And you start your first book with some Cherokee Legends. Maybe we could talk a little bit about those?

I love those. You have the Tsul’Kalu, which was a Cherokee Bigfoot. You’ve got the Raven mocker, who is a Shapeshifting Wizard, basically.  Spear-finger, she’s a shapeshifter elemental. Her skin is granite. Then, you got the little people. I love the little people, they’re fun!

What was the name for the little people?

I always call them the little people. I don’t remember right off hand.

Okay. Because, I wasn’t going to try and pronounce it because I’d butcher the pronunciation.

I do. I was looking up legends from New Zealand, so I could be ready to talk about them. I couldn’t even read them. I was like, I don’t know what this says.

That’s so funny. Well, we call the little people in New Zealand, which are pretty much the same. Every country has got their own version. In New Zealand. We call them the Patupaiarehe, or the Tūrehu. And those are the Māori names for the fairy folk, which are pretty much the little people. I read in your book that there are four, or four different varieties? The rock ones, Water folk? Have I got that right?

I think if I remember rightly, it was the rock, the stone people. The wood, the ground, and water.

That’s right.

And they all do different things. Some of them are mischievous. And some of them are trying to help you, the kids and stuff out in the Woods. And there’s just little – they all have their little personalities in the stories. And the funny thing is I talk to some of the elders out there in Cherokee, because, I’m in Cherokee all the time. So, I was talking to the elders, and there’s a story that when they were doing some renovations out there, getting ready to put a new building up. When they went to dig the footings, they actually found tunnels and little bones.

Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. So what did they do?

I could do a whole book about just the little people

Did they? – What did they do when they came across them? Did they just close it up and move on? Were they respectful?

They were respectable. They kept building the building. So, they removed the bones. And I’m assuming that they did a burial ritual with them. Cause, they want to – There’s still a lot of the elders out there, that still have very strong beliefs in the Legends.

Yeah. Well from ­­– for me personally, I don’t believe that the little people, the fae, the fairy folk, whatever you want to call them, are legends. I actually feel that they are real beings. That at one stage they had more interaction with humanity than they do now. But, people still see them. And they’re actually – I can’t speak for where you live, but here in New Zealand, we’re getting more and more sightings. Mostly out in the bush where they live.

We get a lot of sightings here. But, a lot of different, of the cryptids. It’s like they’re coming out more, and more, and stuff. I mean, we’re taking their property. So, they’re going to have to come out more.

Absolutely. And your Bigfoot, who goes under a lot of names. Now, I thought I had written some of them down, oh, like the Skunk ape. Although that was possibly, initially, an escaped monkey. But, there’s the Skunk Ape, Bigfoot, Sasquatch. In Australia, he’s called the Yowie. In New Zealand, he’s called the Moehau Man. So, he’s all over the world.

Yeah. Every country has a Bigfoot creature.

Absolutely!  And that’s really interesting. Because, you would think if it was a legend, that isolated countries like ours here in New Zealand wouldn’t know about such a creature.

Well, I still believe, I still lean to the fact that I believe that they were a race of Giants at one time all over the world. And I still believe that that’s what Bigfoot is. He was, it was, that race of Giants that were attacked and by the newer people coming in like the Choctaw, and all that. They run across the white Giants here in America, when they had the land bridge, when they crossed over from Asia. When they crossed over from Asia, they come in and such numbers and they run into the white Giants. And the white Giants were cannibals.

So they were scared of them. So they attacked them. The Legends referred to it as great numbers as what they refer to.

They attacks them to get rid of them. And it talks about how they were either killed, or they disappeared into the forest. And if you look at the world, especially right here in America, we have a thing called the Mammoth Caves up in Kentucky.

Right! Yes, I’ve heard about them.

Hundreds of miles underground. There’s rumours that they connect with other tunnel systems around the world? If that’s true, then they could go into those tunnels and end up anywhere in the world.

I’ve actually , speaking about the Giants. You brought to my mind some stuff that I was reading recently. About recent US military encounters with such beings in Iraq, Afghanistan. That’s right. Afghanistan. And I’d actually, really – if anybody out there who’s listening to this, knows of any of the military who were part of this? I would really love to talk to them. I can do it anonymously.

But,  apparently a couple of the platoons came across such beings. And they were cannibals. And they destroyed –Apparently, what I recall reading is that the military were really shocked at how fast these beings could move. And a number of the men were killed, impaled on the creature’s spear. On this beings spear. And ultimately, one was taken down and taken back to the States, I believe.

That’s what the story is, yeah. I haven’t, I haven’t been able to confirm it with anybody that was there yet. I’m working on it.

Oh, I would love if anybody was a part of that,  I would absolutely love to hear about it for sure. Because, I’ve heard about it from a number of different sources now. Not just one source. But, it’s like Chinese whispers. It’s trying to track it down, but, that’s the thing. But, that was really interesting. So let’s talk a bit about then, that – What was that woman with the claw? What was her name again?

Spear-finger

Sorry?

She had long fingers with a little sharp claw at the end of it. That’s Spear-finger. It’s one of my favourite.

You’re cutting, you keep cutting out. Yeah.

Sorry about that.

That’s okay.

I think it’s maybe when I get excited, I don’t know why?

Are you? Are you on your phone? Are you?

I’m on my phone.

Oh, ok.

Yeah, my computer doesn’t go great.

I think it might be when you turn your head. Have you got headphones on?

No.

No headphones, ok. I thought it might have been, because, I noticed that when you turn your head, it fades out. But, you’re still okay. So, what was her name again?

Her name is Spear-finger

Spear-finger, that’s right. So, maybe you could share that story with my listeners. That’s really quite an interesting one.

I’ll give you the cut down version. How’s that?

Okay. That sounds good.

Spear-finger was an evil creature, and the Indians all feared her. But, what she did is she was able to change herself, shape shift a little bit. And come across as a little old woman. But, there were some kids playing up on the mountain, and she was talking to them, and they felt like they were lost. They were crying upset. So she got them. And she told them, it’s okay. You guys can go to my hut and we’ll go get the braves, the other Indians to come and get you.

And she was walking them back, there’s probably three or four kids. And she was walking them back to her hut, when one of the little girls seen something that was not right. And she took off. She escaped. Well, the rest of the kids were pushed into the hut, by Spear-finger. Well, the little girl made it back down to the braves, and she told her story. , the braves took her in front of the chief. And the chief went to the medicine man and said, I need you to make something where I can pierce her skin. Because, her skin was like rock, granite.

And so, the medicine man went in and mixed the stuff up. And they dipped all their arrows and spears into it. And they went hunting for Spear-finger. Well, when they was hunting for her, she heard them coming. So she jumped out of her cabin. And she went running across the Hills. When they were chasing her, she ran into another stone man, and she said, Help me. Help me. Help me. He said, no! You made your bed. You got to sleep in it. He wouldn’t help her. So she got mad at him. But she kept on running because they was getting closer. And she fell in a big pit in the middle, up in the Woods. Well, when she did, the chief and all the braves surrounded the pit.

They started firing the special arrows and their spears and everything. They looked down at her and she wasn’t moving. And she looked dead. So, in celebration, they took off. They went back to the camp, back to their village, and the chief didn’t quite feel – He felt something was wrong. So, he sent some of the braves back up to bring back her body. They got up there, and she was gone! She escaped. She escaped, and she had this habit of eating livers. That’s what she lived on. She had that long finger. And she would cut the kids up with that long finger. And pull the livers out and eat them.

Yeah, yeah. So that’s very interesting cautionary tale for children. Okay. And then we have the Boo Hag. Now what’s the Boo Hag?

The Boo-hag, the story of the Boo-hag, actually comes from West Africa. And it came over with some of this, when they brought the slaves over. And after the slavery thing was over with, a bunch of the Gullah’s, they called them the Gullah’s

Gullahs.

Stayed in Charleston. And when I was a kid, we’d go to Charleston all time. We would talk to them, and find out about the best vacation spots, and stuff like that.

Well, the story is the Boo Hag is an evil entity, and it wears human skin. What it does is during the day, you won’t know for anybody else. But, at night, it goes into its house and it pulls off the skin. And goes out looking for victims. So, if it comes into your house, it would come in your house and it would walk around your room. And then get up on your chest, and start pulling your life out – your life essence out of you, to feed it.

But, it has to be back in its human skin before daylight, or it just disintegrates. So, what it does, it comes in. It does so much every night, so it gets all your essence, and then it takes over your skin. Well, there are certain ways you can stop the Boo Hag. You can do salt, around your bed. And the Boo Hag can’t cross the salt, but that’s messy. So you don’t really want to do that. You can paint all the entrances inside your house, that comes into your house, the windows and doors. Do Indigo blue paint around each one of those and it can’t cross it.

Oh, okay. That’s interesting.

Or, because the boo Hag is neurotic, you can take a brush, or a broom and put it in your room. If a boo Hag sees that, it has to count every single bristle. So, if it’s counting bristles and it gets close to daylight, it has to finish before it can leave. So it’ll finish that. And if it don’t get home before daylight, it disintegrates.

Right. Oh, that’s really interesting. I’ve heard of some vampire stories where they are a compulsive obsessive, like that. If you throw rice, or grains of sand, they have to stop and count them as well. That’s really interesting, very, very, interesting. So, she actually goes on then to sleep paralysis. And the other name for it is Riding the Witch. Yeah. Very interesting.

Would you? You might have had something over in Australia down below you, happened here recently. I read where they found bones of a species of humans, that were the size of hobbits.

Oh. I vaguely remember hearing something about that. Yeah.

They found a bunch of them. I mean, they found, I think they said, there was five full bodies. Something like that?

I know of the one of them Peru, but they had different head shapes. But I – That reminds me of the Menehuni in Hawaii, the same species, I imagine. I’ll have to do some research on that.

I just heard about this the other day.

Another one of your stories that really caught my eye was the story of the white dogs and the salesman.

That’s a good story. I like that one.  I liked it a lot.

Would you mind sharing that?

Sure. I’ll give you the fifty cent version again. That’s they way I remember things, so. . .

That’s alright!

There was a – This was back in eighteen hundreds, and there was a man one around doing door to door selling. And he kept a white German Shepherd with him for protection and for company and everything. He was in a small town in South Carolina.

And to get into town, you had to go through a crossroads. Now, at the crossroads, there was a Church on one side. A graveyard on the other. A big Oak tree on one corner. And on the other corner, there was nothing. Well, he went through that and was in town, and at the different houses selling his products. Well, somebody got murdered. And they naturally just accused the salesman because he was the only stranger in town.

So, they went over and they grabbed him and they took him out, was going to hang him at that big tree, put the noose around his neck, put him up on the horse. And the dog was pitching a fit. It was barking and grown and trying to attack people. But they shot the dog and it fell down at the feet of the horse, the guy was on. And they smacked the horse and the guy hung. They hung him right there. His dog crawled basically underneath his feet before it died.

Well, I think it was that evening. No, it was three days later, they had still been left in the tree. So three days later, another murder happened. And they found out that it was one of the kids of the guy that was one of the lynch people. His kid had off and killed somebody else. So, they arrested him and took him away. Well, they felt so bad and so full of guilt. They went back to where they hung him and they was going to take his body down and bury him as respect, because they killed the wrong man. And there wasn’t much left of him. And the dog’s bones wasn’t there. And the dog wasn’t there, he was gone. So they took what was left of the guy down. And they buried him in that cemetery.

Well, each one of the people that was on that lynch mob had kids, or a family member disappear. And each one of those cases, there was a white dog seen with them. And the last guy, the head guy, the one that was in charge. He was sitting at his desk and he seen his daughter, little daughter come out of the house. And she went to this little Hill, this little Knoll. And she was standing there looking up, looking over it. He’s like something ain’t right? So he opened the window and hollered at her, but she never turned her head. And then all of a sudden, this white German Shepherd walks up beside her, and he takes her down the hill. And as soon as she got outside, he’d come running out of the house. We’re running up there and she was gone. There was no trace of her at all!

Very interesting. It was like retribution from the grave, by this dog.  Of all the legends – let’s go crypto first.  Of all the cryptozoological stories you’ve covered, what is your favourite one?

Ah, I’m a Bigfoot fan. I really am. I’m going on a Bigfoot Hunt at the end of the month. I just, I’m – Bigfoot has been around me more than, as far as movies and all that. And I just, I love the, I love the creature itself. Because, it never really attacks anybody,  I mean it throws them off, and stuff like that. But, there’s very few cases of a Bigfoot actually attacking anybody, and killing them.

No, I’ve heard – I did interview a chat a few seasons ago, who does Bigfoot hunting. He has a Bigfoot hunting group in your area, I think? He got into it, because, he and his mate were camping, and a Bigfoot threw rocks at them. Rocks around their tent, didn’t hit them, just threw rocks around them. Let them know that he was around. And I’ve certainly heard of that happening. I’ve heard of trees being thrown, but I’ve never heard of anybody actually being hurt by one, which says a lot. I’ve heard of people being rescued. I’ve heard of a person being rescued by them, but, yeah, I’ve never heard of anybody actually been hurt. So you’re going on at the end of the month?

Yes, ma’am. The guy I’m going with, he had a – he found a footprint beside his house. It was like, sixteen inches long and almost like six to eight inches wide. It was a big one.

Yeah, that’s big. And does he live near the woods, I presume? Yeah.

Yeah. He lives in the middle of them.

Oh, okay. Well, I had heard of a case of a woman who puts fruit out for them. She lives in the Woods, too. She puts fruit out for them. Apples and stuff, at the edge of her yard. And they come and collect it.

I would probably do the same thing.

So, I guess, that’s going to be something that you’re really looking forward to, to doing then?

I’m hoping to [inaudible], in the least.

Yeah, that would be really cool. Be interesting to hear how you guys get on. Now, as far as ghost stories go. And you’ve covered a lot of them. . .

Did you read Robert the doll?

Yes. Well, I’ve actually covered Robert the doll in an episode that I did on Haunted Objects. But he’s . . .

I love Robert the doll.

He’s certainly a very interesting – Maybe you might like to over it, for those who haven’t heard about him? That would be really good.

We’ll do the short version again. The little boy’s name was Jean, and his family was rather wealthy. So they moved down to Key West, Florida. Because, of the air. And they had a nice house built. And the house was kind of a funny house. On one corner, it had, like, come around in a circle, like on one of the corners of a Castle.

Right. Like a turret.

It was there, had windows all the way around it. Well, the father was out at work, and Jean had a – I guess you’d call it ananny. That was from Jamaica, or some place like that. I don’t remember exactly where she was from? But, she was from the Islands, where they practice voodoo. And she was the nanny. And she loved Robert. I mean, she loved Jean. She thought he was a really cool, fun, little kid. But, the mother was real possessive. And she was out with Jean, and she cut a piece of his hair off, because, she was making a doll for him, that looked a little bit like him. And so, she took hair. And when the mother seen her cut the hair, she freaked out. She jumped all over the nanny, and everything else. And when the father got home, he fired the nanny. And she asked them if she could give him her present, that she had made for him. And they said yes, then leave. So, she gave him the doll. And that just tickled Jean to death. He was so happy to have this doll. And it was all his. And he could talk to his friend.

And it got kind of weird, because, Jean would be sitting in a room and he actually started and named the doll Robert, which was his name is Robert Jean. And so he would talk to Robert the doll. And one time his mom was coming by his room and she heard him speak. And she didn’t really think a whole lot. But then she heard another voice, the other voice came from the doll. So, she jerked the door open and looked around and didn’t see anything. And the boy was real possessive, with the doll. I mean, he was like, he wouldn’t do anything without it.

And it got to a point where his dad got so mad that the stall was always around that he took the doll stuck in the box and then took Twine and wrapped the box in Twine and stuck in the attic. Well, that night they heard something in the attic. Father and mom did. They heard something and heard a pump. And then they heard, like kids footsteps running through the attic. And they thought Jean was up there. So he jumped out of bed and she come out of the bed and they went up there and they were mad as they could be. They opened up Jean’s room and he was asleep. So they went up to the attic and they were looking around and they found the box lying on the ground with the twine all off of it. And the box was open. And Robert was sitting in the corner of the room!

Now, I hadn’t heard that one. That’s really interesting. Yeah.

The dad binds it back up again. He thinks that Jean is just messing with him. So he binds him up, and they Jean off to school. So, he goes to school in France, in order to be an artist. He actually was a really well known artist, at one time. And he gets a call from his mom, or a letter from his mom, not a call. He gets a letter from his mum, and his dad has just died. And she basically wants him to come home. So Jean takes his – and he’s met this woman and he’s in love with her, and everything else.

And they come back to Key West, and they walk in the house. And his Mama is sitting in a rocking chair. Her hair is all frazzled up, and she’s just shaking and she’s pale as a ghost. And she’s just rocking. And she doesn’t really say a whole lot. And that’s kind of weird about it. Jean walks through, I mean he’s going through the house. And as his wife comes through, as his wife comes through, they hear Jean say, It’s Robert! And he picks up the doll and the mom freaks out. She grabs the wife and says, Get rid of it. Get rid of it. Don’t let him have it. Stay away. And after that, Jean and Robert was inseparable. He would go up to that big office they had on the side with all those windows. And he actually made furniture to put Jean, to put Robert into. A little rocking chair and everything else.

And he would do his paintings. And every time he went and showed a painting or sold paintings or had a gallery, Robert was always with him. His wife couldn’t handle it. So, she freaked out and she left. And when he died, they said that people when would walk by the house and they could see the doll in that window watching them. You look up and see him and you look down and look back up again. He’s gone. The person that bought the house had different, bad experiences with this doll.

And so the doll ended up being given to the Museum that are in Key West. And it’s still there, because, this guy was a really famous artist. So the first night it was there, the curator was there and he was getting ready to leave. And Robert was in his little glass thing on a pedestal and his rocking chair and everything. And the cleaning lady come in and the curator left. Well, the next morning, the curator came back and Robert was gone. The glass thing was set over there was like a little footprints all around the room.

And they found him in a different room. So they gathered him back up, took him back and put him by airplane. Back up. And the curator thought that the maid did it. So he jumped all over her and threatened to fire and everything else. Well, she said, look, I haven’t done anything. So that night, he stayed with her and she left and everything was fine. And we went to close the door. He heard the glass move come back in. It was off. And it was footprints went to the other room. And that was Robert freaked him out. So now they actually you have to ask permission. When you walk in that Museum, you have to ask Robert permission to take his picture, or you’ll get cursed.

Yes. And apparently the Museum has so many letters from people who didn’t believe that. And they took the photo and they got home and they had this happened to them. And that happened to them. That’s a very interesting story. So, it begs the question, did the woman when she made this, did she call in an entity to possess the doll?

I think so. I think she cursed it. And she bound it, because, she used his hair. I think she bound it to Jean. By doing that, it would never hurt him. It would always be protective of him. And I think that’s what the whole issue was. Once he died, he had no one to protect. And now it’s just sitting there.

Does the Museum these days still have issues with it staying in its case.

Last I had read – I read a story that I’m trying to remember, Ozzy Osborne. You know, the rock singer? Went down with his son. And they had a big thing. And after that situation happened with them down there, it seemed like there’s been a  more activity. Robert’s been a little bit more active over the last few years.

All right. So they must have done it for the Osbourne son’s show. Haunted objects or haunted things. He did have a show on for a while where he covered, so he might have stirred things up a little bit. Very interesting.

I think so.

For listeners who are listening. George, can you tell us the names of your books again? And for my listeners, there will be links to all these books on this episodes page, on the podcast website, www.walkingtheshadowlands.com, where if you click on the link, you can go and purchase the book from that link.

Okay, well, all the books are named Legends, myths, monsters and ghosts. And they’re broken to four volumes. The volume one is the south edition. It covers from North Carolina all the way over to Texas, and down to Florida. And it has five stories from the Cherokee Indians. And then, the second one is Volume two, the Northern Addition. And it goes from Virginia, North and Ohio East and actually has stories of Washington, DC, which is not a state. It’s just a region. So we put a few stories in there, which has some really interesting ones in there. But, the cool thing about number two is, there are five stories in there that has already been movies. But these are the real stories. You have the real story behind Jaws, the real story of the conjuring story of Annabelle, the  Haunting at Connecticut, and Amityville Horror.

Oh, wow. I should have got your second book and had a read of that one as well. Oh, that would be a good one.

Thank you. And the third book is the Midwest, which is from Kentucky to Kansas and everything. All the States North, which has Michigan, has the Michigan Dog Man. It has Oma Monster and the Beast of Bray Road and stuff like that. Also have five stories from the Sioux Tribe. And then, I’ve got the Western edition. Which is number four. It goes from New Mexico all the way up to Montana and everything west. And that’s the last book, so I did a little bit extra with it. Not only did I do the five stories from the Inuit people up in Alaska, Northern Canada, and all that. And seven stories from overseas. I got one from Africa, one from Vietnam, one from the UK, one from Scotland, or Ireland. I don’t remember which one now. I’ve been Ireland, Africa. There’s seven of them, I can’t remember where they’re all from now.

So a variety in there. It’s very interesting reading, I have to say. Very easy reading. It’s not hard to read at all. Are you active on social media, George? Do you have, like, Instagram or. . .

No Instagram. I have Facebook, MeWe and Tumbler. I think that’s all I’ve got, but also, I have a website.

Yes. So what’s your website?

My super, beautiful, and smart wife did it. She actually wrote the program for the website.

Oh, well done.

And it’s called www.authorgeorgelunsford.x10host.com.

And there will be a link to that on my featured guest page for George, on the featured guest page, and also on this episodes page on the website, which again is www.walkingtheshadowlands.com So don’t worry about writing it down. If you just go to the website. You can click the link and it will take you to George’s website and to where you can purchase his books. So, George, what are your social media links called? Are they linked from your website?

Yes, yes everything is on the website.

Ok, cool.

If you want to find out about me, I don’t know why? But, if you want to find out about me, I got a bio on there. I’ve got several different interviews on there. My new book trailers on there.

I saw that!  That’s a really good trailer. Where do you go from here, George? What’s your next move? Oh also, sorry I forgot to say you do a podcast. Is your podcast still running?

It is, but I am terrible by keeping up with it. And I have to apologize to everyone for that. I am so sorry. It’s called Odd & Unusual Tales.

That’s a good name.  Odd & Unusual Tales.

From Robert to Doll. Historical facts. Weird historical facts. Like, did you know that Napoleon was attacked by a horde of rabbits?

Of gosh, a hoard of rabbits! That reminds me of Monty Python movie and the terrible rabbit.

What happened is Napoleon was going to go into this place, and he told his second guy in charge he wanted to go rabbit hunting. And all his men wanted to go rabbit hunting. So, they went out and they caught three thousand rabbits. Now, the idea was to open the cages, and the rabbits run. And they hunt the rabbits. The rabbits had a different idea. They opened the cages and the rabbits attacked the men!

That’s really unheard of. Oh, that’s funny. I wonder if that’s where Monty Python got the idea for using that as a sketch in their movie? That was one of the funniest things in that movie. Was this attack rabbit. Sorry. What was that?

Excuse me. I used to love Monty Python.

Yeah, really funny British sense of humour. That’s really awesome. So, do you have any more books in the works? Or, what are your plans moving forward?

I’m going to work on stories from my brain.

Good for you.

That’s scary enough as it is. I’ve got one I’m working on. I’ve already started it. You can either call it a supernatural horror or you could call it a dark fiction.

Cool. That sounds interesting.

My main character, she is just rough. She’s tough, and she has new, unique ways of killing people.

Oh, that sounds very interesting.

She’s killing the bad guys.

Thank you so much for your time today.

If I have any encounters, I’ll definitely let you know.

That’s. Wonderful. Thank you so much, George. Have a wonderful evening.

Thank you. You too.

If this conversation with George has piqued your interest, then check out his books. There are links to them all from this episodes page on the podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com. I certainly enjoyed the one that I read.  Check out his website https://authorgeorgelunsford.x10host.com. I want to thank George again for his time and energy, and his patience in waiting for this episode to actually make it to air.

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