Kia ora, hello everyone and welcome to the final episode of season nine of the Walking the Shadowlands podcast. If you are a new listener, thank you for joining us today. If you are a returning listener, it’s lovely to have you back.

Today, I have a guest who was brought to my attention in a very different manner, one that I actually talked about with Michelle Belanger in the first part of Vampires: Fact or Fiction? from the last two episodes. And I’m going to insert a part of that conversation at the beginning of the conversation with my guest, as it is very relevant to this episode. I will talk a little more about that as we begin our actual conversation. We will be discussing the African-American belief system of Hoodoo. So without further ado, let’s walk into this part of the Shadowlands and see what awaits us there!

Because, I did not know much about this belief system, I did some research and I actually found this quote that I’m going to share verbatim from an article entitled “Hoodoo in St. Louis: An African American Religious Tradition” found on, of all places the US National Park Service website. A link to the actual article is on this episode’s page of our podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com

“Hoodoo (not to be confused with Voudou) is a spiritual religious tradition created by enslaved African Americans in the United States and inspired by Central and West African religious practices. The practices include herbal healing, veneration of African ancestors, counterclockwise circle dancing (Ring Shout), water immersion, sacred music, spirit possession, divination, and using charms for spiritual protection against physical harm and conjure.

Many of these Central and West African religious practices were brought to North America during the transatlantic slave trade. Enslaved Africans were often forced to become Christians upon arrival in North America. The synchronization of African practices with the Christian religion created Hoodoo among enslaved African Americans. Slave codes did not allow large gatherings of free or enslaved Blacks, and it was a crime for African Americans to practice traditions from Africa. As a result, some Hoodoo practices were hidden in African American churches, creating a unique brand of Christianity that fused African traditions that was called Afro-Christianity, or African American Christianity.

The Hoodoo religion during slavery included religious practices from various African cultural groups, including the Odinani religion of the Igbo people, the Yoruba and Vodun religions of the Fon and Ewe people, and a Bantu-Kongo tradition in Central Africa. All these African religious traditions blended and fused with Christianity on slave plantations, creating a unique spiritual tradition practice by enslaved African Americans and their descendants. After the Civil War, many of these African religious practices survived in Hoodoo and became a spiritual practice that continues in African American communities today.”

Apologies for any mispronunciation of the African names whilst reading that quotation.

My guest does not have a public blurb, so that I can tell you all about his background. He has allowed me to call him D. So that is how I refer to him throughout this episode.

D has a TikTok account where he talks about his belief, understandings, and other things that take his fancy. His account has over two hundred thousand followers, with over two point nine million likes. So, he is well followed there. His account on Instagram also has thousands of followers. So, I’ll just let D. talk for himself. He’s very open, at times raw and vulnerable about discussing very personal issues. He is currently engaged to a wonderful man, and splits his time between living in the States at his place and in Mexico at his fiancé’s home, where he was when this conversation took place.

D.

Marianne: D. welcome to the Walking the Shadowlands podcast. And thank you so much for agreeing to talk with us today. For my listeners who are listening in, I met D in a very interesting way ahead. For those of you who follow my current podcast, when I was talking with Michelle Bollinger in my previous episode called Vampires: Fact or Fiction? I talked about an experience that I’d had the night before.

Michelle: “The other thing that you know, the other thing that I’ve noticed specifically with dream walking, dream telepathy and similar communications, is when it is another mind reaching into you. Reaching into your mental space. You notice it, because, it’s different. You know, your regular dreams have a familiarity to them. There’s a pattern, and a shape, and a feel. And when another mind interposes itself in there, it changes the shape of it. And the very fact that you notice it means that you are more likely to remember that experience, when you wake up.

Marianne: That’s actually ironic. I had one just last night, actually. And I don’t remember seeing this person’s face, but he was male. And he was a southern male. And I remember him very, very clearly. Because, he had this absolutely the broadest, cultured southern accent I’ve ever heard. And I lived in North Carolina for a while, so I was used to the southern accents. And I thought, well! You know, what’s this person doing in my dream? It wasn’t even, you know, just there out of the blue. He must have been talking to me for a while. I have no recollection of what he was saying to me, but, I just remember him leaving.”

And then, the very next day, after I spoke to her. I had just posted my social media for the day on TikTok and spirit said to me; Now, you need to scroll and see what’s on your feed. And the first thing that popped up was D. Now, in this experience that I shared with Michelle, I had a visit from a person I’ve never met before. But, their voice, they had this most beautiful accent. And it’s an accent that I absolutely adore. I loved when I was living in the states. And I still, I still love it. It’s a very cultured southern accent. And I, the voice was unmistakable and I was telling the about it anyway. So I was on my feed and spirit said to me, Look at this person. And it was you talking about. It was one of your pinned ones, were you wearing your yellow head . . .

“Sit down for a minute. We’re going to have a bit of a talk. It’s going to be a bit of a long one, so you know, bare-with me. Now, I’m just going to come right out and say it. Some of you on this app are way to trigger happy to be doing spiritual work on situations that either A) you’re in. Or, B) you have no business being in whatsoever! Or meddling in, whatsoever!

Which is the reason why divination is so important before you do any kind of spiritual work for anybody. Because, you need to sit down and assess three things in full. Not only the spirit of the person and if that person is meant to be going through, what they’re going through, with the said situation that they’re in. You need to assess the nature and the spirit of said situation, which is going to dictate how you’re going to work that situation. Are you supposed to be forceful? Is it supposed to be quick? Is it supposed to be subtle? Is it delicate? You know? And lastly, is spirit moving in that situation, or not?

Now, don’t get me wrong. Even if spirit is moving in that situation, on that person’s behalf sometimes they be like, ok, yes do the work for them and everything. Meet me halfway, in order to be able to help them out. Sometimes spirit will tell you, hell no! Stay your hand away and everything. What they’re going through, is on them. You have no business taking part, whatsoever!

In some ways – in many ways actually, it’s how my Grandmother says; “You must learn to be able to see God, in every situation. That, not only what you’re going through. But, what other people is going through. Because, you never know. There’s deeper understandings, messages, lessons, meanings, in what they’s going through. Not only in the good, but also, in the bad.” Also, how my Grandmother also says; “All things are of God and all God is good. Regardless if the situation might be shitty. Or, if the situation might be beneficial.”

If anything, the work that you should be doing on the daily, is promoting your own prosperity and abundance. Promoting your own healing and growth. And alignment in your own spiritual journey. And working your protections on the daily, before even thinking about doing anything for anyone else! Or, getting involved into something that you have no business being a part of!

Bottom line, spiritually learn to mind your own goddam business sometimes! And keep it moving. And worry about your own damn self, before you worry about someone else! Are you good first? That’s really what it boils down to. You all have a blessed day.”

D. Oh yes. It was the one that I was talking about. And long story short, I was talking about don’t meddle in other people’s business magically. Because, you might be circumventing or stopping them from learning a lesson. And then you get caught up in it and you wondering why you looking dumb as that?

Absolutely. That was it. And it was as soon as I heard your voice, it was like, Oh my God, that’s the guy that visited me the other night. It was unmistakable! And so I I’ve got, I’ve got to hunt this guy down. And there’s a reason why I saw him in my dream state. So, I need to contact him. And so, I couldn’t contact you on Twitter. So I went to Instagram and found you on there and contacted you through there. And here we are. So that’s how I came to meet D. So I’m really excited to be talking to him today and I’m, I . . .

And what’s funny is, that I’m normally cautious about doing podcasts and stuff like that and everything. Because, I’ve been having people for the past what? Couple of weeks messaging me going like, Hey, I want you to promote this!  Hey I want you to promote that. But, they have no notoriety or anything backing them. Or, no like no websites, or anything like that. But for some reason, my ancestors, just like, when I was reading your thing about like, Hey, I want you to do a podcast. I was like, I don’t know. But, my ancestors were just like, do it! And I’m like, Ok.

Wow. And then, the strange thing is, I was just brutally upfront, with D. I told him that I’d had this dream. And he could have said oh, this person is a real kook! This is somebody I need to watch out for. But, I kind of felt like you were a straight up front person, without having seen any of your other videos, just that one. So, I knew that it was best to be straight up and direct with you.

Hmm. I mean too, I’m literally one of those people, I mean, going to use this metaphor, I’m the type of person where. I will give you more credit if you show me your knife upfront and put it to my face than hide it behind your back.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, and I’m definitely a what you see is what you get person. No time for subterfuge and, you know, it’s just not respectful and respect is paramount in everything.

Flat on out!

So here we are today. And I will have to say, because, I knew nothing about you. I actually went and watched every single tick tock that you had loaded. It did take me a few days ago. So you’ve got some really good information on your tick tock. Now, D goes by Afro­_spiritual on TikTok. Is that correct?

Yes.

Yeah. And on Instagram?

Yes. And on Instagram.

First of all, maybe we could start at the beginning? Now, because I’m in New Zealand and although the majority of my listeners are in the states. I am listened to in over 85 countries. So, you’ve got a fair audience here, who may not know precisely what you do. So maybe, we could start from the beginning? Now D is a root worker. Is that correct?

You could call me a rootworker or a Hoodoo practitioner, as long as you don’t call me a witch. Yeah, I’m not a witch. I don’t practice witchcraft. I don’t do it. I don’t do that. I practice root work, or what you may call, Hoodoo.

Can you please explain for my listeners and for myself, what exactly hoodoo is? Because, many of us have heard the term and kind of conflate it with voodoo. And I know they’re not the same thing are they?

They’re not. They’re not.  I’ll also give a little bit back history as well. Hoodoo  is an African-American spiritual practice that came about during the times of slavery, in the United States. It was a means for enslaved Africans in the U.S. to be able to hold on to their African traditions, the best way they can. Behind the pretence, now keyword, pretence of Christianity, the bible and the church.

Right. I saw that in your post and I found that so incredibly interesting. And I . . . like, it – the African-American situation in the states has always touched me on so many different levels, the unfairness of it. But, the fact that you were able to continue your traditions, right under the eyes of people who thought you were following, what they wanted you to believe.

And don’t get me wrong, I mean, are there some are there some black folk in the United States who, who, who are Christian? They don’t practice voodoo or anything like that? Yes. Yes, there is that because they’re knew that that’s one of the things that’s going on in black communities. Like some, they demonize our ancestral practices, while others we embrace it. So we go back to our roots. Some don’t want to go back to, others do. And that’s where spiritually that’s where the black community is right now.

Right? So can you tell us a little bit about what exactly Hoodoo is?

Well, it is more than just, you know, root bones and animal parts, because a lot of people when they look at black practices, even with Voodoo. People just see it be like, Oh, it’s black magic! Oh, it’s devil worship! Oh, it’s this! Oh it’s that! Oh, they do sacrifices and this, that and that, what not. We’re not going to talk about the sacrifice part though.

 But yeah, it’s none of those things. This is not devil worship whatsoever. It doesn’t matter if it’s Hoodoo. It doesn’t matter if it’s  Voodoo. It doesn’t even matter if it’s Orisha, or anything like that. Black spirituality, or even African spirituality at the end of the day – and this is where the issue comes in, where people who have an outside view, trying to make assumptions over things that they don’t even know from the inside. Because, if they were on the inside, they would have a completely different understanding and opinion.

At the end of the day, black and or African spirituality, we believe in one supreme creator. At the end of the day. Everything that we do from our ancestors to spirits are in our practice, and everything are said to be manifestations and extension of God itself.

Right. I totally understand that.

And the backbone to it all, especially with Hoodoo is the ancestors. Your ancestors are your roots, they’re your foundation. Everything we do is by the grace of the ancestors. And through the ancestors, by the grace of God. Without your ancestors, you have nothing. That is what is believed. That’s the emphasis that we put on in Hoodoo. In other African traditional practices to ancestors are the beginning point, and everything goes from there. But, Hoodoo does not involve Orisha or Lwa, or anything like that. It’s our ancestors and God.

Right. And I found that when I was listening to your bits that you put on, that your ancestor – Ah, in New Zealand,  the New Zealand Māori people call ancestors to Tupuna. And it’s a very important part of Māori culture. Not quite to the, to the same extent as it is in Hoodoo. But, they certainly respect and still look to their ancestors for a lot of things. To their tupuna. So there’s quite a bit of similarities, and I found it very interesting considering we’re literally a world,  half a world apart. On the other side of the globe, so just to me, shows that some things are, are global.

Oh, yeah, ancestral veneration or the reverence of ancestors, if you want to think about it, the concept of doing ancestral veneration pre-dates all mainstream religions and spiritual practices, for the most part.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. If you do anthropology study, any anthropology. Then that’s something that comes up constantly because it is a constant throughout so many cultures. And part of your part of your ancestral veneration is that sometimes, but not always, you will have altars to your ancestors in your homes. I know many Asian people do this as well.

Oh yeah, ancestor altar. I mean, it depends on a person, depends on a practitioner. Most voodoo practitioners will have an ancestor altar. But the thing is, the ancestral altar is just the physical representation of what is going on internally within you. Because, it is known and believed that your body is your first altar. Your body is your First Temple. Your body is your first sacred space.

Because the blood of your ancestors live in you, you are your ancestor. You are and accumulation of everyone that has come before. That’s so all the answers, all the answers are in your blood, all the connections and bonds are in your blood, all the wonder and miracles, and everything is in your blood.

I actually was just reading just yesterday, actually a post where –  I can’t even remember where it was. It was an article about how when a woman is pregnant, the baby’s cells and her cells,  intermingle in their bodies. And forever, there’s a part.  Well, I don’t know for how long after the birth of the baby, there’s a part of the baby’s cells still in your body. And your cells in your baby’s body. So I kind of like –  it kind of ties in with, you know, the blood of ancestors. Because, there’s like, a physical connection, as well as the spiritual connection. We are that sum of our ancestors after all. I totally . . .

And not only that, within the blood too.  Like memories, experiences, gifts, traits, everything! From even traumas, pains and sufferings. Everything is passed down in the blood. I mean, it is recently scientifically proven that, you know, genes do carry memory and they can be tapped. If you know how to do it.

Interesting, very interesting. So, you grew up learning your Hoodoo from your Grandmother. Is that correct?

I did. I did. And the funny thing is, is that she passed it down without even meaning to pass it down. And the reason why I say that is, because, in my family especially on my mom’s side, the women normally learn the ways because I come from a long line of midwives conjuring midwives so they not only tend to births, but they also help with ailments dealing with the womb. They’re basically healers in a way. So, the men normally don’t learn anything. Especially my Mom’s side. But none of the women wanted to learn, that came out to my grandmother. But yet, I was the one who was showing a knack for it. At the same time, I also had a need for it, because, I was having experiences when I was a kid. So she just like [snaps fingers] teaching this one!  So in a way, though I’m male. I’m just a placeholder until either I have descendants, or my nieces show an aptitude for it. So, I know the mid-wifering ways because the thing is, when it comes to mid-wifering ways – and some Hoodoo men, conjuring men, would try to debate me on this.

But, Hoodoo at the end of the day from the way I learned, and also from what I observed, is a matriarchal practice. At the end of the day. Because, there’s certain elements of  Hoodoo practice that you cannot do, unless you are – And this is where I say, biologically. Where unless you are biologically born with the womb and the ability to menstruate. So, and there’s a reason why I’m being exact on that, I’m definitely aware of, of, trans-issues, trans-movement and everything, and I’m 100 percent accepting of it. It’s just when it gets into certain elements of Hoodoo, it’s like – Okay, I want to be able to give you the answer that you want. It’s just, yeah, it’s that issue. That’s the reason I say biologically, you have to be born a certain way – To be able to go into those types of Hoodoo practice, that is predominantly female.

Yes. I understand that. I totally get that. Yeah, it’s the physicality of it. And that’s not to say that there are not many people who are born with physical bodies that don’t match who they are. Because after all, this body’s only a vessel we’re using it?

True. True. I mean shoot, there’s certain elements – I mean, technically, I’m intersex. Because, you know, outwardly I pass as male. But internally I do have recessive traits of female parts. But, even then, I cannot go into those parts of Hoodoo. That is predominantly female. It’s just not possible for me.

Yeah, yeah. And I, you don’t take it as a slight or anything because you understand that’s how it is.

Yeah. And that’s how it is. And that’s the way I learned and everything. Because as a male, the way I was taught, your duty as a male in practice is to preserve and protect. And also not only preserve and preserve, protect, but also speak up on the sacredness of what, of the feminine principle of Hoodoo practice and what it means. Don’t get me wrong, you still speak up about the masculine principle, but the masculine principle is predominant everywhere.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. In the sacred feminine has always been in European, Western culture, degraded, for want of a better word.

And so it’s like, honey, I don’t. I don’t care if you want to, if you want to remain blissful and everything and blind to everything. But the one thing and you’re not going to do is disrespect another person, because they decide to wake the hell up.

Yeah, yeah, and all really comes from fear, doesn’t it?

Oh, yeah. And that’s what some people don’t understand. Ignorance stems from fear.

Yeah, absolutely!

And the only way to quell that, is to educate yourself. Or, to allow yourself to be educated.

One of the things I’ve noticed with all your TikTok that I’ve listened to. And I actually like this attitude –  Is that if people make a mess. And they come to you to try and get it sorted, you tell them to go and sort it out themselves. Because, it’s their responsibility, they created it. They need to sort it out.

Flat on out!  Because, the thing is, the most – The main reason why, is because, people who come to me with those issues is literally, either I had a video. Or, somewhere along the line someone told them, hey, don’t do this. This is a closed practice. You have to be ,you have to go about the right channels. You have to go and get someone to help you or this and that or blah blah, blah blah. And they will come around and go, I decided to do it! 

Like, let’s take a honey jar, for example. I decided to do a honey jar and everything. And my boyfriend is like, he’s becoming, he’s getting all violent and stuff like that. And I’m like. OK. So why didn’t you listen to first time? Well, I thought that because we both love each other!  No, baby! You did that, honey jar on your own accord. And now, it’s bringing out the truth of your relationship.

Interesting that, isn’t it?

Just, so how’s that? How’s that my problem? Well, I don’t want to end up getting hurt. It’s like, OK. Well, what can I do? Go to a river and unscrew the top. Throw it in the river and pay the river. And ask it,  ask it to see if go wash it away for you. Well, I don’t have a river near me. Well, then looks like it’s like popping in the car and going on a road trip then. But, that’s too much work. And I tell them, in Hoodoo practice, we call it spiritual work for a reason. And sometimes, we have to work our ass off. That’s the problem. You dabbled in something that you should not have. And now you have to go and put into work, and now you don’t want to put in a work. Make it make sense.

Yeah, exactly. I really like that. That’s like, I actually really like that attitude! Because, it’s not mollycoddling people, people don’t learn. I mean, you can have compassion and you can have understanding. But, if they know that it’s a closed practice and it’s something they shouldn’t be dabbling in anyway, and we’ll get into that little bit. Then the consequences are on them. Absolutely. It’s like it’s like a child. You tell a child, don’t touch that burner it’s hot, you’ll burn yourself and they go and touch it. So, yeah, you know, what do you do? That’s their learning.

Yeah, person, personally, the way I see it and the way I’ve always operated –  must be my grandmother in me. I have no sympathy, pity or compassion for the woefully and also wilfully foolish. I only have compassion, pity and sympathy for the unintentionally foolish.

Yes. And that’s, and that’s a big difference.

And that’s it!

Let me go back to a few things you said, D. First of all. Can you explain for my listeners what a closed practice is. And Hoodoo is a closed practice? Is that correct?

Yes. A closed practice in a lump sum is either a is a cultural oriented practice that comes from a group of people, or peoples that requires initiation, or ancestral blood ties to That’s what a closed practice is. Hoodoo is a closed practice. It’s unique in its own way, compared to the other African traditional religions. Because, other African traditional religions, it does require initiation. You have to go and find a priest, or priestess to read for you. To see if the spirits of those practices want you to be in those practices.

And most people, especially United States, is like, Oh, I’m white, so I cannot go. It’s like, bullshit, there’s so many people. There’s so many, there’s white people in our closed practices and everything. But, they went to the right people. Got the readings, and the spirit of those practices said, come, come on in. And they went and got their head washed and everything, initiated. And look, they’re operating in full context and African traditional practices. Because, the spirits of our practice to see something in them, either that they would do great or that they will find healing potentially to their ancestral lines and where they come from.

Ah interesting.

Yeah, because the spirits of a practice, we’re human, we only able to see what’s on the horizon. The spirits of our practices, including ancestors, be able to see not only what’s on the horizon, but also beyond and below the water. And above the water.

Very interesting.

That’s the thing.  Hoodoo is unique, because, it is a spiritual practice. It’s not an organized religion like the other, like the other are. I can’t even count them organized religions. I won’t call them, or I’ll call them organized spirit, spiritual religio-practices. I’m just going to use that term for the moment. Hoodoo is unique, because, it’s not organized like that. So there’s nuance to initiation. It’s closed to those who do, who are not directly African-American and, or black. So if you don’t carry the blood, you cannot practice. But, when it also comes to black people, the reason why it makes it closed to black people is, because, you need at least one ancestor that practices Hoodoo. Or, who practised Hoodoo. That’s your way in. That’s your ticket.

But, when it also comes to people who are not of the people. Your way into the practice is given by A) being invited in by someone who is a practitioner themselves. Or, B) you having a family – let’s say that you had a family member that married in and everything, your practices. That’s your way in, if they decide to teach you.

Sometimes, especially amongst black folk. Sometimes just going into your church and getting the baptism, might be your initiation. Having your gran – having an elder, or something like that, calling you into the kitchen. And they observe how you make a recipe and everything. And if they give you that nod of approval. Or, any kind of approval. That could be your initiation right there. Simply getting your head anointed by a, by an elder can be an initiation right there. Or, it is simply put, it could be like, for example, how in the states and everything a hoodoo practitioner going like Honey, your family! Now you’re invited into the cachou, come on. That could be your initiation right there. So, initiation in Hoodoo is so nuanced.  It is so nuanced. It does not take an organized form. And it’s built on the solidarity of trust, is what people don’t understand. As in, if you can’t be trusted, honey, you’re not in this practice. And that goes for both white and, or black.

Because, in African traditional practice and African diaspora practice, it is known.  It is known, not everyone is meant to be a practitioner. That not everyone’s meant to have this knowledge. Because, it’s knowledge that could easily be abused. And some people would not be in service to the spirits of the ancestors. They would be in service to themselves. These practices are even closed to its own people! Being black, or being a descendant, does not give you an all access pass. You still need to go and get your readings and everything. And be validated and all that stuff, and confirmed. Simply put it.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely

It’s like, Oh, most people are meant. Most people are meant to be simply devotees, of these practices. As in, going to these people to, who know the ways. To get work done for them on their behalf. Or, have their readings done to help them keep walking with their back straight.

That’s very interesting. So, like in terms perhaps, that is easier for some people to understand? Being a practitioner rather than a devotee, is sort of like being a priest? Or, a priestess?

In ways, yes.

Wow. OK, that’s very, very interesting.

Now I will say this, though, venerating and honouring the ancestors, plenty of that’s the aspect that’s not closed. Anyone can do that.

Yes, absolutely. No, I’m talking specific practices. Like, you talked about a honey pot. Now, can you explain –  like that’s part of a practice?

Oh yes, the honey jar thing. Yeah, the honey jar – And the thing is, in modern-day’s time, especially amongst new practitioners. They think that, you know, doing a honey job will help make someone fall in love with you, and all that stuff. It will keep the making sweet on you. It can improve the relationship. And don’t get me wrong, it has those qualities. It can do that, because, honey sweet honey is internal. Shoot a jar of honey can last up to thirty thousand years. Yes, it’s eternal. But the thing is, when people do it, especially people who are not of the blood. When they do a honey jar, they don’t know the history behind what a honey jar is.  Especially, amongst African-Americans going all the way back to the days of slavery and oppression.

A honey jar was made for a specific purpose. To ensure that families would stay together and find their ways back to each other, being separated from each other by force. Or where they had no other choice but to, because, of the Great Migration period, and things like that. It was a means of going like we will find our way back to each other, no matter how far we go. That’s the significance of the Honey Jar in African-American culture and practice. It wasn’t for the whole, the whole fact of fall in love with me. It was like, No, if we ever separate. I know you will come back to me.

Wow. That’s actually incredibly touching.

That in a lot of Hoodoo practice in African-American practices carries those significance. Because, it’s a practice of survival, we work on the need of necessity learned to just use what we got to. That’s what it is, I mean, a good Hoodoo practitioner. I mean, this right now, can easily take a glass of water and do so much with that water. They can either bless you, or curse you. They can either fix your situation or make it worse, just by speak, by simply speaking over the water and doing something.

Right. And I guess that’s putting your intent into to it, and your energy into it.

Hmm. But it’s not just me, it’s my ancestors, too. Because, that’s another thing that most people don’t understand. It’s like when we say root work, most people say, Oh, you work in roots plants or just like. Yes, but that’s not the deepest essence of the work. Your root is your ancestors.

Right. I’m glad you explained that.

Your root is your ancestors! So, whenever I’m doing work, because, it is known and believe your ancestors are part of nature, why? Because when we die, their bodies go back to the Earth, which then feeds the soil, which then feeds the plants and the roots. The animals eat the plants and the roots. And what do humans do? We eat both the roots and plants and also the animals. And we facilitate the cycle until it’s our turn to give our body back to nature. We are walking embodiment of our ancestors. Walking around in the human world, in our blood. We are part of them, they a part of us. The stars are said to be the souls, the ancestors looking down upon us.

So everywhere you look, there is ancestors. Don’t get me wrong, there’s other spirits too. But everywhere you look, there is ancestors. It is all connected by the grace, and connect interconnectivity, and dependence of God. And when I say God, most people, I don’t want people thinking that I’m talking about the Christian God. I’m talking about the guy, the source, the creator. I’m talking about the universe, or consciousness, if you will. And we’re all connected by that. So whenever I pray, it’s not just me praying, it’s also my sister’s praying whenever I sing, it’s not just me, it’s me. My ancestors dance and doing anything working with my hands. It’s not just me. Hoodoo practitioner is never alone in their work

And it actually is quite a tremendous responsibility, isn’t it? When you look at it like that.

Yeah, because what you do affects next seven generations,

I was just going to say.

moving forward and backwards. The reason why I say, the reason why I say it backwards, too, is because by doing the work, by living a better life, by also walking and sacredness and veneration. You also clear up generational and family issues, that may fall down in your line. And that’s one of the primary goals of ancestor veneration and also Hoodoo practice. It’s a community thing. It’s a family thing. Not only internally, but also externally. You are clearing up generational issues. So that way when it goes to future generations, Honey, they’re better off. You put in the work for now, so your future is brighter. But, your past is clear.

I really like it. That really impressed me when I heard you talk about there on one of your TikTok’s. That really hit home and I thought, well, that’s a really very – It’s a great attitude to have, to realize that you’re affecting change. And that’s a positive thing. I see that being very positive. And the goal ultimately is healing and reunification it, is it?

And that’s really what it is. It’s, like I said, you’re reconnecting to your roots. You’re re-establishing them. Basically, think of it like this. You are mending the tree in which you descended from, which connects to a bigger and greater tree.

Just before you said that, I was just going to say, I had this image in my mind. Of this massive tree. Solid, solid trunk, with branches going into the sky. But equally, branches going underneath. So, it’s reflected what’s above, is reflected below. I saw that very clearly in my mind’s eye.

Hmmm, I mean, that’s something that my grandmother always told me. It’s like this the gift of utterance. You just be talking. And next thing you know, you say was on someone’s mind, heart or the situation that’s going on. And I’m like, well it just slipped out. OK, let’s just keep it moving.

Can I go back to one thing you mentioned earlier when we were talking and that was the Orisha? So, for my listeners who may have been listening and wondered what that is, can you please explain what Orisha is?

The, the Orishas and take this with a grain of salt? Because I just initiated into Lookboonmee, which is the Afro-Cuban version of Orishas Practice. So I’m just, base level initiate. Granted, I have been doing some study before I got initiated. But, this is from my current understanding. So everyone, please take this with a grain of salt. The researchers are said to be manifestations of the one creative source. Not only in the cosmos, but in nature. Some people on the outside will look at them as gods or deities. And it’s like, no, they’re greater than a God or deity. They are greater than Zeus. They’re greater than Thor. They’re greater than, they’re greater and greater than all that.

The reason why? Because, they’re intermediaries. They are direct manifestations of God. It is not like the other pantheons, where like someone birthed another, and another, and another. And creating like a, like a like a parental tree in a way. No, they are direct manifestations. They are divinities in their own right. They are God. The different facets of it.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Oh that’s very interesting.

And same with the Lwa – which is in Voodoo.

So ok, so Lwa, it’s the same thing as the Orisha, just a different name?

It’s similarly. It’s how to say this? Voo –  the Lwa and the Orisha, they originated in the same area in West Africa. But, the practices share some similarities, but they’re different still. So, the concepts and principles are the same, but the expressions and stories are different.

Perfect explanation. Now, that brings me to another point. Which was something you mentioned, when you talked about you were going into this area.  You talked about the Mami Wata.

Yes, yes. Oh, my goodness, that was a fiasco within itself, and everything. The Mami Wata was a practice is said to be a sect within the Vuldoon practice. Which comes from the Fawn people in West Africa. Now, Mami Wata itself, is said to be a mermaid, primordial water spirit. But, the Mami Wata practice, is the veneration and worship of primordial, water spirits. That are said to have been here, since the beginning.

The reason it jumped out at me is, because, I interviewed a gentleman. I’ve had him on my show twice and he has Ghanaian roots? His wife’s Ghanaian.

Hmm, Ghanaian.

And he talked about the Mami Wata. And how one of their relatives was abducted by the Mami Wata. And returned three years later.

Hmm. That happens. They really do happen! And not only in off the coast of Africa, but also here in the United States.  Not only in the United States. But also wherever, wherever there is Afro, or African, or African descended people. Those water spirits are going to be there.

The water spirits in New Zealand, the fae folk of any description are called Patupaiarehe. That’s an over overview name for them. But the water spirits are specifically called Ponaturi.  I hope I pronounced that correctly, Ponaturi. So it’s again, it’s a worldwide . . .

Yeah, because shoot! Even in the black culture, in the United States, shoot.  My grandmother, growing up she always told me. Don’t be out by the water at night. I don’t care if it’s a river, I don’t care if it’s the sea. I don’t care if it’s a lake. I’m like, Why is that grandma? Because, the water spirits, they may come and take you. You go missing and you be lucky if they bring you back!  And I’m like. OK. Oh, thank you. I’ll be sure to be safe and everything, especially by the sea, especially by the sea, because if they bring you back! And I’m like, oh? Ok! And I’m like, I, I’ll be sure to be safe and everything. Especially by the sea. Especially by the sea. Because, if they bring you back, it is said that you might come back with mystical knowledge and understandings, beyond what most humans are even capable of knowing.

Yes, absolutely.

But, that’s if they bring you back.

Yeah. Well this, this woman was away for three years in human terms. And during the time she was away, she said that they used her to breed from. And that kind of ties them with so many other things. But, I’m not going there. But, that Mami Wata just jumped out at me, when I heard you talk about it in that particular.

Yes. I was, at first, going to go into Mami Wata Practice. But, the person who was my mentor at the time. Did some background research on him, because, things weren’t lining up. He was a fake priest and he was trying to use me as a spiritual battery.

Oh, so he was an energetic vampire.

Basically. Yeah. And in the practice, it’s called a bacour*. A dark practitioner, or a shadow worker, if you will. And so I went on the offensive. I blocked him and left him. He tried to work roots on me. I simply went to my family’s home. I cracked open the pots that we had. Mainly my grandmother’s pot. And this is where, you know, the only time I’m going to mention about animal sacrifice. I had to bring out the big guns, to go against a priest. And put him in his place for the protection of myself and also potentially my family. So the thing is, though, these practices are of God. We do have some, like every practice in the world. We do have some dark ways. Some people are comfortable doing it on the every day. Others only do it if they have no other choice. And in that situation, I have no other choice, right? I had to protect myself. I had to protect the home. Simply put.

Absolutely. Oh, heck, I’m not sure we should go. I understand that there are many aspects to Hoodoo that we can’t talk about. And I would never pry. I would never, that’s not the point of this. The point of this is just to share knowledge and information. So, I’m not going to go into any further. And  I’m not going to ask you any more questions about that, because, I respect that boundary.

And I appreciate that.

I’m not going to put you in a position that makes you uncomfortable, either. That’s not what I’m about. Maybe we can go on to some other things. Could you share with us some of the things your grandmother taught you about? That are, that are okay to talk about? Traditions and beliefs like, like not going near the water at night. What are some of the other things that you’ve been told that anybody could, you know, perhaps use in their life?

Goodness? Well, I have recently made a video about it and everything having a bowl of rice next to your bedside, whenever you sleep and then everything, because, there spirits. And ironically, when I made that video, people from different parts of the world were coming out saying that, Oh my god, we call this here. Oh my God, we call this here. Oh my God, we call it. We call this spirit that you talk about here., this that and the other. So, in African-American culture and folktales and lore, you have a bowl of rice, or newspaper around your bed, or taped to the wall. Or, a straw hair broom upside down ,by your front door and everything. To ward off Boo-Hags and or Haint’s. Which is said to be spirits that would target you. And come to you in the middle of the night. And torment you in your sleep, draining your breath as in your life force. Making you exhausted. Giving you nightmares, things like that, until you die of those afflictions. One in particular the Boo Hag, it is a Haint. Haint just means restless spirit.

Thank you.

A Boo Hag is said to be a witch. So, in our practice, if you’re dealing with the Boo Hag coming to you, in in the middle of the night. The bowl of rice will only work for a short period of time, until they find a workaround. Because, the Boo Hag is said to be an actual person. Which in the folklore behind it is, that they take off their skin to be able to creep into your house, in spirit form. To come and torment you. And the story’s sometimes literal, but it’s metaphorical of, no, you have an actual person who is working against you. And they’re coming to you, as in their dreams, astral projection. Sending other spirits of work are coming to you to torment you.

Right. I was going to bring up the Boo Hag and Haint, so that’s really cool. I spoke with a lady a few seasons ago. She’s a granny witch in Appalachia and

We have the same thing.

Yes. Let’s go into the more, away from your practice actually. And talk about some of cultural traditions and beliefs like, you’ve got the Boo Hag. What sort of other creatures, do you have that are a part of your tradition? Like, like I  spoke with a wonderful Navajo couple. And they talked about the skin walkers.

Oh, goodness, we don’t even say that name here. That’s in Native American lore. That’s a Native American lore. Depending on the part where you are, you don’t even see that name

Correct.

Because, they could, they could come around.

Yes. Correct, that’s what they said.

and everything. Yeah, they, oh goodness. So then it depends. Some tribal stories say that they are corrupt shamans, or medicine men or women. Some would say that it’s just spirit. But either way, they have the ability to shape shift into whatever is needed ,or necessary, in order to corner their quarry and draw them in.

Yes. No, I spoke with a Navajo couple who told of their experience with a Skin Walk. No, I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. I meant . . .

Oh? Oh, OK. We have we have something similar, in a way, but it’s not really similar. Goodness. That’s where we get into people in Hoodoo practice, which is called, we call them shadow workers. Or shadow men, or women. And those are people who take the practice and they basically do unjustified work. Because, justification. Being justified is a big, big thing in our practice. Personally, I don’t believe in karma, to be honest. And there’s many reasons for it. My thing about it is, justification. I will only do what is justified. As in, if you do right by me, then it’s justifiably I do right by you.

Absolutely!

Do wrong to me, and it’s justified, then I’ll do wrong back to you. And I’ll walk away with no guilt, regret, or anything on my back.

They do unjustified as in, they contractually make agreements with certain spirits to pawn off their debt, to pawn off their consequences. To pawn off the justice that is seeking them. And as long as they uphold those agreements and contracts, they could do whatever willy-nilly and nothing bad will happen to them. As long, as they uphold those contracts.  And with that said. They’re not respecting the universal balance of things, they’re not respecting the scales. So, they could just curse and do whatever willy-nilly and all that stuff. They work with more malicious forces. Let’s just say that. And if the day comes they don’t fulfil their contracts, all that accrued debt that’s been pawned off and put at bay. [Snapping fingers]. Retribution.

Right. That’s really interesting.

And knowing how to do to identify one. Or, even knowing when you come across one is such a big thing. That’s the reason why before leaving out of your house, before even talking to anyone on the phone, even do. Because, your phone, believe it or not, y’all your phone is a mirror to other places in the world.

Yeah, absolutely.

And anything can come through your phone! Just like how somebody could come through a TV. Or, come through a bathroom mirror, things like that. You could come through your phone. Shoot, that’s a walking crystal ball ,right there. Just saying. You have your protections on you, even in your own home.

I’m with you a hundred percent on that. Absolutely.

That’s why you have to be careful what you watch, what you listen to. Or, who you even talk to at a distance. Because, you never know what they’ve got going on in the background, going on around them. And that very thing that might be creeping on around them, or what they do, it could easily take a liking to you. And be like, let me just go on from here.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Absolutely. And is it one of the reasons when you’re out in public, you very often have your head covered? In fact, I don’t think I’ve seen one video of you, when you’re walking out in public, not in your home or in private areas, that you don’t have a head covering on.

I wrap my hair more times than not. I mean, I might have very little hair, but the thing is, it doesn’t matter if you have hair and not your crown. Your head is a direct axe, is one of them is one of the direct access points to your spirit. It is known, and it doesn’t matter if it’s African. It doesn’t matter if it’s Afro, or even black, even in the United States.  Not everyone is meant to be praying for you. Not everyone is meant to be laying hands on you, to be healings. Not everyone is meant to be touching your person, or your head. And knowing when to tell a person no! Or, not accept any of things is crucial. And will keep you safe, more times not.

That’s actually really interesting that you say that, because, it brought to mind –  I’m always really cautious when I go to hairdressers. And I’ve never actually understood why, until just now, people touching my hair. Like, while I love having my hair done, you know, in the times when we can, I’m always really apprehensive when I go to a hairdresser, not because I’m going to do makeup, and I never could understand why. Now I understand. Now you’ve put that into context for me. Very interesting.

And yet you could. You could. You can mess up someone’s whole spirit and life. Just by, just by doing something to their head. You really can. You really can. And that’s the reason, that’s the reason why I always had my hair wrapped up and everything. And that’s the reason why I carry on protective charms and talismans and stuff like that. Because shoot, there’s some people and everything ,where I’ll be walking around and stuff like that. And they will see me, especially here in Mexico, if they say something to me, regardless, if it’s the Spanish or English, I don’t take their word on it genuinely. I literally like hmm hm. Keep it moving. Or, have someone in the United States when you sit there like, I’m going to pray for you. I’m like, No, no, I pray for myself. Thank you. Keep that to yourself.

I hate it. I hate that when people say that to me. It’s one, it’s very condescending. No, not always. Not always. I will clarify that, but very often people use that as a way of belittling. I’ll pray for you, because, you need it. You’re a sinner. You’re a poor– yeah, yeah. And it’s that energy . . .

There’s even some reiki practitioners out there. some reiki practitioners out there. They would be like, Oh, can I do a reiki healing for you? I just feel called. I be like, No. No, no, I don’t want a reiki healing from you, thank you. It’s like why? I practice Reiki and this and that. It’s like. Honey, you need to go in a session, and tend to your own spirit. And turn that reiki onto yourself, instead of always trying to pour from an empty pot. What do you want to give me? When you got nothing? Go heal your own self. Shoo! Instead of trying to heal others.

My podcast started out of a Facebook group I have, called Walking the Shadowlands. And I started that to be able to help as many people as I could, on a spiritual level. And to educate. And this is something that I constantly say to my people. People who come to us for help. Oh, I’m da, da . . . I say, look, you can’t give from and empty pot.  You cannot give.  You’ve got to look after yourself. Gotta sort yourself out. And when I heard you say that – Yes, this man is just so on to it. He’s just, so onto it!

Well, you, you are your first relationship. You are your first marriage. If the relationship or marriage with yourself is not good. How can you expect to not only be able to love, or be in service, or help, or be there for anyone else if you can’t even be there for your own self?

Absolutely correct. I applaud that.

It literally is common sense granted, common sense is not as common any more.

I was just going to say . . .

but it is common sense. This is common sense so many people forget in this world. And don’t get me wrong, I was one of them I used to, I used to be like that, literally, if you were speaking to me three years ago. Like remembering and tending to the duty to myself and my own happiness would not have been there. Because, back then, I was constantly pouring to other people. Now here I am, twenty-nine years old, entering into my thirties by next year. I’m like, Oh, I am my first priority. The duty to myself is my first priority. My happiness, is my first priority.

Oh, look, you know what? I’m not your mum, but I feel incredibly proud of you. You could be my son. You’re the same age as one of my babies. But, you know, like for some – and I don’t mean this in a belit – but, for someone so young, you have such a maturity about you. And that comes from your spiritual maturity.

It does. Well, granted, not only that I went through, I went through a lot of hard lessons. I really did.

Yeah. I can tell.

I mean from drugs, sexual assault and everything. And not only that, finding out about –  what gone on five years now. Finding out that I was HIV positive, when I wasn’t, when I didn’t even know it. I had to be faced with my own mortality. And not going to lie. I am HIV undetectable now. I am so aware of my own sexual health. I’m able to educate others and even younger gay folk who are out there just messing up and not even being safe. But, because I faced the reality of my own mortality, the nature of it. It made me better in who I am and what I am. And not only that, I am literally, I’m not young enough. I’m literally living in this century where not only a vaccine, but also a potential cure for HIV to come around when I’m in my fifties or sixties. So, I’m like, There’s hope.

Thank you to all those who came before and everything who unfortunately lost their lives to HIV. But, because of their research and also because, not willing, obviously not willing, but because of your passing and the sacrifices. It paved the way to where I can have the medications in today’s time. Where I can live a normal, healthy life, which is also patient. Changing the way as well to a potential cure can be found.

But yeah, that’s, that’s how it is. So, I went through a lot of shadow to be able to get to where I am now. I really did. And that’s one thing about spirituality that most people underestimate. Everyone thinks that, Oh, I’m going to go and be a light. It’s  like Honey’s, enlightenment is not all what it’s cracked up to be. Do you know, the journey to be able to get to even a glimmer of enlightenment requires a lot of self-sacrifice and a lot of destruction of the self, in pain? You have to walk through a lot of shadows first.

Absolutely!

You have to go to the darkest levels of yourself first before you can even understand the sweetness of light.

Oh, totally correct. And I like – there’s a  Confucius saying that went out in the, in the early seventies. And it’s, before enlightenment chop wood, fetch water after enlightenment, chop wood fetch water. Which means, that you may be the most spiritual person on this planet, but you still have to deal with your day to day realities. Like you did before. That doesn’t alter. And a lot of people, when they are on a spiritual journey, they think that once they become spiritual, that you know, the physical day to day things don’t really apply so much.

No, it do. Because there’s spiritual and the physical. And there’s physical and the spiritual, it’s just divine. It’s just divine reflections and fractals of each other shoo. I mean, the whole spiritual journey is literally you go in it trying to seek yourself. And, then after that, you go through all the bullshit and everything else just to come around full circle. So, it’s like, I’ve always been myself. I just had to pull the wool from over my face and everything. Just to see that I’ve always been what I’ve always been. Yeah.

You know what? You are so interesting to talk to. What advice can you give people about discerning what sort of spirits may be around them?

One, it all begins it yourself. You must understand how your own spirit orients. And also understand how you ­– how impressions of energy feels to you. How do you perceive it? How do you see it? How do you hear it? All those things. Understanding your senses. If you don’t have a firm grasp of how your own spirit orients, when it comes to discerning different types of spirits.  You are going to be – you won’t be . . . You’re literally just going to be sitting in water. Stuck basically in a boat with no oars or anything like that. You won’t know how to navigate it. So it’s like, I tell that to everyone. I’m like, You need to go understand yourself first before you try to understand other energies.

Absolutely true. And that’s what I say to people. You’ve got to listen to what your body’s. I say it in different words, but it’s the same message, you know, so you’ve got to listen to what your body’s telling you. So therefore, you have to know what you feel. What your normal baseline is, basically.

Because, the most common phrase that people come in saying is, that they sit there and say, they’re like – Well, I’m trying! I’m like, Stop right there! You’re already messing up. They’re like, What do you mean? I’m trying. Stop right there, you are messing up, but I’m trying. That’s the problem. Try. Pay attention to what you’re saying. I’m trying, meaning you’re overthinking it, to the point that you’re becoming your own obstacle. Stop trying. Relax. Just do. Let it flow.

This reminds me of Yoda, do or do not, he says.

Yeah. And also, I’m a stickler for words. I tell people all the time, whenever I ask them. When they’re like trying, they come to me, going like, well I’m trying to figure out my gifts. I’m like, OK, tell me what, tell me what your gifts are? I don’t say think or anything like that.

They will use keywords where they’re like, I think. Or, I feel, or I see. Or, I know. And I always have to be like, OK, stop right there. Go back to the thing that you just said. And you’re like, well wadya, what do you mean? I’m like, go back to the thing you just said. Well, I said, I feel. There you go! That’s your gift. They’re like, what? It’s like. Just by speaking, you wasn’t aware of what you was saying. But, subconsciously you said what your strongest gift is, that it’s natural to you. You said you feel. You’re supposed to be focusing on how things feel to you. Yeah. You said you, you see, or you think that’s in the mind. You’re supposed to be working on your sight, working on your claircognizance, in a way. You said – And for some people, it may even pertain to your hearing.

Yeah, absolutely. Yep.

So you, just by speaking, you subconsciously say what your strongest gift is.  Just pay attention to what you say. That’s all it is. For some people, it’s like, Well, I know, hey you know, which means you have the gift of knowing. So that’s what you need to go with

Claircognizance. Absolutely. That’s exactly what I say to people too. Not those right words,  but, exactly the same. So it’s quite interesting.

It’s basically one of those things. It’s like people naturally carry the answer. And all it is, is that, Oh honey, you just need to adjust your lens. There you go.

That’s it! It’s perspective, yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you. Now on a little bit of a different subject. As a practitioner, do you often get asked to clean this place of any entities, spirits?

Oh yeah. I do. I do.

Are you able to perhaps share maybe a couple of those experiences?

Oh yeah! I’ll share a good experience. I’ll also shared an experience that got way too intense.

Oh that’ll be great!

A good experience is that – it doesn’t know what I do first. I will always, always, always, always divine, before I go and do a cleanse, or house cleansing, or anything like that. Because, you know, people will tell you what they think was what they think was going on with their house. But it’s like, OK, I hear what you’re saying. I want to see what Spirit is saying about this first. So, I will divine it.

The good experience I had happened and everything.  They were telling me, Oh my God, my house is haunted and everything and da, da, da, da. I need you to come and get these spirits out. And I’m like, OK. Well, I sat there and divined it. I showed up with my stuff. The only thing I had was a glass of water and a white candle and my Tarot cards. And that’s it. And they’re like, wait! I thought you was going,  I thought you was going to be doing a house-clearing

I’m like, Oh, I am doing the house-clearing. I need everyone in the family in, to sit down with me, right now. It’s like, OK.  Now I’m like, OK, this is the house clearing. What we’re going to do is that we’re going to hash out the pent up and passive emotions that people are not confronting by saying right now. Because, you’re not being haunted. Y’all are haunting yourselves. The unspoken energy that y’all have been talking about. Yeah. That’s what’s haunting you. That’s what’s causing issues. So we’re going to hash this out right now! We’re going to have a kumbaya moment and come to Jesus. So what’s going on? And I sat down and went into counsellor mode, and forced the family to speak up. And what was going on in their hearts and mind. And clear up years of B.S. And upon doing that at the end of the day, I left, they had no more issues.

That’s very cool.

Sometimes this –  sometimes it’s not always, oh, some spirit is haunting you. It’s like, honey more time than not, it’s you. Or, a group of people haunting yourself, because, you’re not being upfront with speaking up what’s on your heart, or your mind. So that energy needs release.  That energy is getting restless. So what does it do? It projects outside of you and becomes its own thing. It just causes issues around the house. That’s what a poltergeist is.

I was just . . .

That’s literally all with a poltergeist is.

Yeah, exactly exact – and you brought . . .

Unexpressed emotions and mental energy, that needs expression. So it takes on a life of its own, to just express its self. And it will not go away until you, until you deal with your BS.

Yes, exactly. And very often also it happens around teenagers who have all that built up angst and hormonal stuff, that they can’t express. In fact, in my group at the moment, like you, when I get specific people asking for help – and I don’t charge in my group, it’s all free. I go away, especially when there’s children are involved. I go away and I won’t answer. I might wait one or two days before I get back to them. Because, I think about the situation and I feel it out and, and I see what’s going on. Like,  I’ve got one specific one at the moment. And it’s I know it’s not what the mother is presenting it as being. Totally not.

Yeah, the worst experience I have. Well, it’s not really the worst. It’s the darkest experience. I went to go and do a house clearing and everything.  And I divined it. And I was like, in more –  The thing is, I divined it first. And I was like, OK, this is a simple thing. Simple house clearing. Started to do the house clearing. I noticed that the home itself, something in the home, was fighting me. And I had to sit down and re-divine everything. And I was like, oh, there was some hidden stuff here. This ain’t no poltergeist. This is actual, like, malevolent force that’s trying to claim possession of this whole family. My goodness!

And so I broke out my stuff and everything. Broke out the frankincense and myrrh, rosemary. And broke out my Bible. I broke some talismans, and fetishes. And I started to do my work. But, it started to fight even harder. And then, this is – and this is something that I tell most people. And this is where the duality of practice comes in. Because, I know it myself. I set everything down, because, I started to hear a whisper. It’s like you cannot, you cannot stand up to me! You cannot hold a candle to me! This, that, and the other.  Like literally challenging me!

I set everything down. I took off my glasses. And I just said out loud – and I’m like. Don’t for once think you are the biggest and worst thing out there, because, I might walk with God.  But honey, when I flip the switch, I’m worse than the devil itself! I will become your hell. I will become your jailer. Don’t try me, whatsoever. And I opened up my pot and I was just like, because you will live in this to the end of days. And you will not know no promise of the afterlife, or reincarnation. Now, what’s it going to be?

It was a trickster spirit, trying to act, and puff up and everything. And it just dimmed right back down, it’s like, Oh crap! That’s what I thought. Now what it’s going to be? You leave, or you’re here.  And I’ll be sure to bury you in the Earth! And you would know no promise. No nothing. Not even any light, no compassion or anything. Just internal darkness alone, scared, withering. It left!

And that’s a very valid point about trickster spirits, isn’t it? I have like – in all my years, I’ve been doing this work. I’ve never truly come across something that wasn’t human, trying to portray itself to be something else. In order to scare people.

Yeah! And don’t get me wrong. There are dark forces and malevolent entities and energies out there that are truly are what they say they are. But for the most part, honey, they don’t mess with humans. It is quite rare to come across those kind of energies and everything. I think most people sit there and be like, Oh my God, there’s a demon in my house. Baby, more times than not, you’re not dealing with a demon. You’re dealing with yourself, or a trickster spirit.

Yeah, exactly.

And that’s why I tell people the duality when it comes to being a practitioner. It doesn’t matter how, how sanctified you are or anything like that. And then I guess the reason I tell people, Hey, you better be strong in your faith, strong in conviction and understand who you are. Because, as much as you’re capable of great good, you are more than capable of the darkest and most malevolent and twisted of evils. And by knowing your power in that honey, you have nothing to fear, but the only thing that you have to fear yourself. In truth. In truth, that’s the reason why, and it took me a while to come to that, and that’s reason. I’m not scared of nothing. The only thing I’m ever scared of is my, is my ancestors, my family or the divine itself, because I know if the divine decided to reach out its hand and give retribution. Yeah, I can’t hold a candle to that.

Yeah, it is. I started this conversation so interesting because you’ve been answering questions before, I’ve been asking them just as they formulate in my mind, you answer them. Really, really very cool. Very, very cool. Now, just a couple of things. You said in there, that maybe you might want to clarify for listeners. And I wrote them down, so I wouldn’t forget them. Talismans and fetishes. Can you please explain what they are?

Yes. Well, I use talisman or fetish like interchangeably in a way some people would say amulet’s too. But all it is, is an object that is enchanted or work on that. You have an affinity for that assists you in your work.

Right. So, for people with a Christian perspective, it could be the same as the Saint Christopher’s Medal, type of thing.

Yeah. Or your cross that you have ,that you wear around your neck. For me, it’s slightly different because I do have a cross that I wear. I do have some necklaces that I made and stuff like that bracelets, amulets, talismans that I made. I even carry some of some of my talisman amulets are dried animal parts and everything. Because, they carry, they carry energy that is designed for that purpose. And I work with the spirit of that said animal.

Ah, thank you. That brings me to another point. You talk often they’re about the spirits of things. Like the spirit, or the energy of a place. Working with the spirit, or the energy of a place, of any place. Can you explain what you mean about that?

Different places carry a certain energy, a certain spirit about the place, and it has significant meaning. So when you go to that place? You’re in, you’re in the, in, in some ways, in Hoodoo practice. This is the remnants of the old beliefs of the Orishas and Lwa in Hoodoo. Because, when I sit there and say when it’s like, Oh yes, I go to the spirit of, I go to the power of a place. I go to the spirit of the river to be able to do my work and things like that. And what this river do, a river is flowing. It has the ability to wash away things, or to help you overcome and conquer. Because, rivers are able to bust through dams. Rivers are able to erode things. Rivers are also, they’re cleansing. They wash away things. Some rivers, if they’re clean and flowing, they’re sweet and they’re refreshing. Now, need be, because I’m a part of the Orisha faith That’s the remnants of the Orisha, Oshun, which is the Orisha of rivers. Sweet, flowing waters. I can go to the ocean and everything. The ocean, which is the place of creation, which is said to be the womb. Which is a place of birth and in some cases to places of endings. That’s the remnants of the Orisha, Yemonja. Because, she’s known as the mother.

I could go to the forest and everything, which is where medicine is kept. Naturally in the forest, where medicine is kept. Where life and death are so intermingled. And that’s also the place where certain Orisha dwell, too. I could go to the mountain, which is said to be the highest place you could go to be able to reach the heavens. Which is a place of clarity, which is the place of strength and fortitude. Certain remnants of certain Orisha that live there.

Go to the railroad and everything. Working with iron, certain energies live there. Go to the graveyard. In the graveyard, it has its own rules. Because, the graveyard is a place –  I would just say like this; when you walk into a graveyard, you’re no longer amongst the realm of the living. You’re amongst the realm of the dead.  And you have to orient yourself amongst the ways of the dead. There’s certain etiquettes of things that you have to do before even entering. There’s certain things that you have to do in the graveyard, because, you’re a living being in the realm of the dead.

That,  can you talk a little bit about that? Because, here in New Zealand, we – with the Maori people, we have some cultural traditions around urupa’s, which is their term for graveyard. And one of them is very similar to yours. In that when you leave, you must wash your hands and cleanse yourself.

Yes. Yeah.

So, can you please explain for my listeners, especially for my Maori people who listen. Because, I know they will find this fascinating. What are the things that, that are expected when you enter, and when you’re in there, and when you leave?

When you enter, before you enter, you  have to ensure that not only are you protected, or dressed protected. Because, you never know what you will encounter. You have to have your head wrapped up, or a hat on to protect your head. To protect your crown, because, anything can attach you through that. Be sure that you have something cleansing on you, like a, like a mix or something. Or even like, or even a smoke mix that you could light in there and cleanse yourself. And stuff like that.

But, when you go around in the graveyard, you do not want to step on graves. You don’t want to step over graves. Also, bring a trash bag with you, because, if you see any mess, clean up as you go. Be respectful. But before you enter, you give either tobacco, you give either flowers. Or, you give coins at the entrance. Because, you have to pay your admission to get in. Acknowledging the spirit that oversees the whole graveyard, not just the spirits in the graveyard, but the spirit that oversees the whole grave. Because, every graveyard has a guardian spirit now. And usually that is the first person to be buried in that graveyard, or the first whatever, be it an animal or human. The first to be buried in that place, is usually the guardian of that space. There are bound to that area and they oversee it for all the time.

Right. That’s really interesting.

And you, or in you just go around being respectful ,orienting and everything. Hoodoo folk, I mean, amongst African traditional folk and everything, they go to the graveyard to be able to do their work. But you can’t just go in there and just do your work willy-nilly. You have to form a relationship with that graveyard. You have to form a relationship with that place. You have to befriend not only the guardian of the graveyard, but also the spirits. They have to get used to your presence as much as they have to get used to you. You have to get to the point where it’s like you walk up and there’s like, Oh, hey, what’s up? Did you bring food or anything like that ? How’s everything going. You have to get to that kind of level, before, you even to do work in a graveyard. And that can require days, weeks, months, or even years of constantly visiting, paying respects and honouring. Now when we leave, some people would like to pay their way out.

Some people would turn their back towards the entrance. Or walk backwards, going out. Some people will just turn their back just walking out and just walk out, and just pay their way. It depends on the family, depends on the person. So, but once when you leave headed out, that’s where you take your take your water mix for cleansing, or you take a smoke mix. Before you even get in your car, you clean your spiritual points. You wash that stuff. It’s a pre-wash, actually. You cleanse that stuff off you and then you get into your car. You go home. But, once you get home, that’s where you have your full-on spiritual wash from bath. And you bathe death off of you. So, that way, anything that tried to attach itself to you, that was not able to leave during the Premix. It’s washed off in full. But, even before you get into your home, that’s where you do a second, a second wash or mix and one that’s a little bit more potent.

Wash your hands, watch your feet, wash your spiritual points and stuff. And then you go and do the bath. So, in essence, you’re doing two to three washes, or cleanses, before you even get anywhere. You do one before you enter your car. You do a stronger and more potent one before you get through the door. And then you go and do the bath and everything. What my family does, what I like to do before, when I leave a grave and everything before I even do –  After I do the hand wash and spiritual points in the slow cleanse. I have a mixture of dirt from my home mixed with salt.

And I’ll take it and I will pat myself down all over with it. Yes, I am putting dirt on myself, but it’s prayed over and it’s consecrated. I am neutralizing whatever might be attached to me. Which would give me ample amount of time to get inside, get undressed and set everything down, start up my shower, clean myself, head to toe. And then use my spiritual bath, or wash, and wash myself down with that. And then I’m good. The dirt and salt is a neutralent, before I’m able to do the serious stuff. So it’s a pre-wash, a neutralizer, then a wash, wash.

That’s really interesting. And to what you said about making friendships. You know, getting to know – And when I trained as a nurse, I live in a particular town here in New Zealand. And the –  I lived in a nurses home. Because, in those days we had accommodation for nurses and it was part of your training that you lived there. Well, right opposite the nurses home was one of the oldest, is one of the oldest cemeteries. Well, it is the oldest cemetery in New Zealand, ah in Napier.

Well, may I  interject for a second. Let me interject for a second. There is a difference between cemetery and graveyard, in our Hoodoo practice. You go to graveyards to work, you don’t go to cemeteries. And the reason why is simply this graveyards are normally overseen by a church. Cemeteries are not. So, in Hoodoo practice, you go and you work at a graveyard, because, the dirt there is consecrated and sanctified by a church. Cemeteries are not. They’re not protected. So in cemeteries, you are more likely to come across those negative nasties, because, the dirt is not hallowed.

Very interesting. I’m glad you made that distinction, because, I actually didn’t know that. So, there’s something else I actually learned today. Very, very interesting. OK, well, in this cemetery, I used to go and visit it all the time before I was more aware. I was young then, very young then. In my, well, early, well in my late teens. Actually in my late teens. And I was very young and very immature. But, I used to go with there, because, I felt a lot of peace and comfort. And I would go there quite often. And then I went away from my town and I came back after like twenty years. And I felt the pull to go up and visit the cemetery. And I had a tape recorder with me. And I got, Oh, Marianne’s back! Marianne’s here! All these spirit voices on tape, recognizing and acknowledging me. And it was just absolutely lovely. Cause, I feel quite safe. I know that there are beings in that place that are not good, but they don’t bother me because the other ones protect me.

Yeah, they’re vouching for you and they’re protecting you. It’s like this one’s ours! Leave this one alone!

Yeah. Yeah. So that’s quite interesting. Oh, thank you for that verification of the difference. That’s really cool.

So yeah. I mean, for example, if I was in New Zealand and let’s say that I wanted to as a Hoodoo practitioner, I wanted to visit a Māori gravesite, burial site. Well, first no one, not only before, just even landing in New Zealand. I would have to, not only pay respects to the land, it’s I have to pay respects to the land itself. First, I have to make my presence known to the land itself and be there for some days. That way, I get to know the land. The land gets to know me. They become familiar with me. They become comfortable with me. I become comfortable with the land, with the spirit of the land itself. Before I could go to any burial site. And then when I go to said burial site, well before I go to it. Not only that, because I have to go and get and get permission from the people! Because, I have my ways of honouring spirits and everything. Don’t get me wrong.

But, in order to be recognised, I have to ask them. To be like, what are some ways that you respect your dead? How do you do this? Because, I don’t want to be disrespectful. I have my ways, but what are yours? I’m going to do a mixture of the two. I will leave mine, because, this is what I culturally do. I’m also going to leave yours, because, this is what your people recognize. That’s what they see. They, they might not see my stuff. They might see my stuff as an offense, shoot. The moment I start pouring white rum, what if it’s an offense?  And I’m like, I’m sorry, I’m just doing what I culturally do.

Right, that’s a . . .

But even then, I can’t take dirt from there. I can’t just, I can’t just leave stuff. I can’t just go to anyone. I literally it would be like [snapping fingers] enter, walk around, maybe clean up and everything if I see a mess. And then, I walk out.

Right. Now, that brings up another point. Some of the workings that you guys do, and many belief systems use graveyard dirt. How does? What is the significance of using graveyard dirt?

It depends on what you – Now it depends on what you, what you’re trying to do.

Right. And the only reason I’m asking, is that I know a lot of listeners will have heard of grave. You know, they associate that with, with voodoo and hoodoo and mainly because of the sensationalized, you know, movies and stuff.

Hmm. It depends on what you’re trying to do. It depends. Because, the thing is you know, you have to form a relationship. Not only with the graveyard, but also with the spirit of that said, grave. But, that’s also not only forming a relationship, but also where doing your research on who they were? What life they lived? What was their occupation? What was their speciality? This, that and the other. Because, all that plays into that dirt, in what you’re able to use it for. You cannot just pick up – You cannot just go to the graveyard and be like, OK, I got dirt! I’m going to use it for this. Like, baby, what if you took dirt from a freaking convict and everything and they’re angry? And you trying to use that for healing? Honey, you just crossed yourself. You just, you just cursed yourself. Good luck getting that spirit that is now on you, off of you. Good luck appeasing that one. You’re on your own for that!

Yeah, absolutely. Because, it’s all energy. And an energy exchange –  we’re kind of going all over the place. But, that brings me to another point, of energy exchange. Payment is a big thing. Payment, in terms of energy, or physical money is a very big thing. And actually, it’s something that I’m big on too. Like in my group, I don’t charge people for advice.  But, I say you must pay it forward, with energy, like by participating in the group. That’s, you know, that’s kind of like a payment. Cause, it’s an energy, a sharing of energy. And I know that you’re quite big on that.

Oh yes. Oh yes, you have to! You have to. Everything is an exchange of energy. And some people might find this like, be like what? But, I’m sorry to tell folks, but you know, nothing in creation is free. Except for just, you know, the spark of creation itself. That’s it. That’s the only thing that’s free. Nothing is for free. You cannot give I mean, you can get without giving. You cannot give without getting. You have to pay for it in some way, shape or form. Because, and this is from what I’ve learned over time. The universe, creation, consciousness, God.  Whatever you want to call it, is only concerned with two things. The exchange of energy. And the preservation of balance. And it goes hand in hand. If you’re constantly taking, taking, taking, taking, taking. OK, well, you’re creating an imbalance. Not only within yourself, but also with the forces, the energies around you. And it’s going to keep on increasing. That energetic debt is going to keep on increasing, increasing, increasing.

Until one day, one fateful day if you haven’t paid it back in any way, shape, or form. Universe is going to come knocking. And it’s going to correct that imbalance, forcefully. And you might not like what it has to do to correct it. That’s the reason why you pay and give offering for every single little bit that you do. That way, you always constantly maintaining that balance. You don’t have to worry about a debt whatsoever. Constantly.

Right, and that’s . . .

Even with my own ancestors. The reason why I charge for the work that I do and everything is, because, of what my own ancestors. They told me, you’re not giving away anything for free. So, when you pay me for to do readings, or to do work for you, you’re not paying me. Don’t get me wrong, the money goes towards my living. Because, ancestors don’t want to see me struggle.  But you’re not paying me. You’re paying my folks, to be able to read and work on your behalf. Simply put, it is a sacrifice.

Yeah, it’s an exchange. And one thing that I learnt when I was very young, my spirits told me –  Because, I didn’t have enough confidence in myself, or I felt –  I had a lot of self-esteem issues back then, about not being good enough. And I didn’t charge people at all. And I soon got pulled up! My spirits said to me, Marianne, people do not value what they get for nothing. These people that, they’ll think nothing about going out and buying a pack of cigarettes, which is really expensive here in New Zealand, straight after seeing you. So, why are you less than the value of a pack of cigarettes? Why do you feel that you’re? So, they pulled me up on that. And since then I, you know, I’ve been quite adamant about exchange. Because, that’s so important. You know, like, you said, people don’t value what they get for nothing. And it’s important to have that exchange.

Hmm, for sure. I mean, shoot! Don’t get me wrong, my folks will sit down and negotiate with people. We will. We will. Because, you like, let’s say that, because my our sessions cost one hundred, one hundred USDA. Now, let’s say that someone is able to pay that, but yet they really need it and my ancestors see it. They will let me know. It’ll be like, sit down and work something out with this one. We would, we would take, we would help this one out. Sit down and see what they able to give.

Yeah, that’s the same. I charge a hundred New Zealand as well. I rarely  do consultations, one on one consultations these days. I just find it as I’m getting older, I find that my energies are better utilized where I can do the most good, rather than one on one. That’s what I do to my group. But yeah, that’s exactly how I too. And quite often people will say, Look, they’ll bring me things like a lady. I know she really needed to see somebody one time she came and I knew spirit said she really needs to –  You really need to see this lady. So, she came around and she brought me some stones, hag stones, you know? With the holes in them.

Oh yeah.

And to me, that was an awesome exchange. And I value those stones. You know, I’ve still got them, ‘til today.

Oh Yeah! Hag-stones are amazing. And it might just be the difference between culture, but hag-stone in used in in Europe and everything. Also with just people who are European descended. Because, the thing is, I tell people this all the time. It doesn’t matter where you are in the world, you know? Those spirits that are native to certain cultures and stuff like that, have a tendency to follow people wherever they go in the world. So, there’s even European, or Celtic Fae, or fae folk that is in New Zealand, because, it came with those folk. So, looking through the hole is said to not only reveal hidden things, but also to reveal to the eye, the realm of those folk.

Right. Yes, I have heard that.

And they and depending on if they want to be nice, or tricksty,

Ah, true! 

They can, they can do some harmful stuff.  

That’s very true.

I actually have a, I actually have a permanent stigmatism in my right eye, because, I looked through a hag-stone when I wasn’t supposed to, when I was a kid. They, and I used – when I was a kid, I used to have sight in both my eyes, so you could see that realm. Playing around with hag-stones, in a forest, looking where I’m not supposed to. I saw some things. And they, and they, keened on, to what I saw there. They took my sight from my right eye.  Just flat on snatched it! Because, I was running. And then, out of nowhere, as if I tripped on air, felt like something was holding me down. Something reached for my eye. And my eye hurt. For the longest time, I thought I was blind. I wasn’t. I had to go and get glasses. And I had it and I developed a permanent astigmatism in my right eye. But in my left eye, it turned it developed into being near-sighted. I lost my twenty-twenty vision because of that.

This very interesting.

And the thing is based off of the lore and understanding, I got off lucky. Because, what if they want to take me into their realm and I’ve never been seen again? All because, I saw things I shouldn’t have.

That’s really interesting. And actually, so sorry, we’re going all over the place. That brings me to the area of the Fae. What is so huge belief about the Fae? How does the Hoodoo?

We don’t really have belief about fae in Hoodoo practice.  In Africa, from old African understandings we do have, quote, unquote, fae folk. But, for the most part, it depends. It doesn’t depend on spiritual belief. It depends on tribal belief. And that’s the nuanced understanding of it. Because, different tribes in Africa have their own beliefs, depending on –  pertaining to those kind of folk.

Now in the diaspora, we’re all a mixture, myriad of many different tribes and everything. For the most part, most of us don’t even know which exact, maternal ,or paternal tribe we come from. So placing the fae or African fae folk understanding, is difficult for us in the diaspora. We know of their existence. We know that they are around. But we learned and developed and called it – We gave them our own names and things like that, just to be able to differentiate. And we learned how to be able to counteract them the best way we know how, we know how working with what we got. That’s the reason why. That’s the reason why we have the things I do like the Boo, the Boo-hag and the Haints, and the Plat-eyes, and everything other else.

What was that last point you just mentioned? Plack eye?

Ah, Plat- eyes, Plat-eyes

What’s the Plat-eyes?

Um restless. Well, restless spirits that are normally tied to hidden and buried treasures, and talismans, and things like that. That’s a Plat-eye. And if you catch the attention of a Plat-eye, Honey, not even running is going to save you. And that’s just flat out it. You can pour some whiskey on the ground and it might get side-tracked by the smell of whiskey. And try to go and lap it up. But, if you catch the attention of Plat-eye, nothing is going to save you. Truly, nothing is going to save you.

And there are many stories. And normally these are tormented and restless, black folk that died! And, or, was killed over a buried treasure. It’s actually one story about this one woman in the north. I forget her name. She knew of the existence of buried civil war treasure. OK. She led some, she led some white folks to be able to go find it and everything. And upon finding it, she was killed. She was beheaded. Buried, unmarked.

But, the thing is, what they didn’t realize is that she was also conjure-woman, as well. So, they tried to take the treasure. They couldn’t. Everyone died. And they say, still to this day, that the spirits of that woman that was beheaded, she guards and protects that treasure. Anyone going to find it, she’s a Plat-eye. Anyone going to go and find it? Good luck! Because, if you manage to find it, you have to deal with her. And she will try to kill you and harm you, because, she died over that treasure. So what makes you think? So what makes you think that she’s going to just let anyone try to get it? Yeah. She was killed unjustly, just for helping. So literally, the mentality is; I got killed over nothing for this, so what makes you think I’m going to give it up so easily?

I can understand that attitude.

So that’s what a Plat-eye is. They guard hidden places. They guard hidden treasures.

Why is it that you guys use alcohol so often in your practice?

Oh, it is because of libation. It is to pour, not only to acknowledge those who have came before that we know by name. But, also to acknowledge those who are unknown by name, who are forgotten. It’s to pour a libation. It’s giving a drink to the ancestors, is really what it is. So, when you pour it, not only are you pouring for those who came before, but it’s also for those who are forgotten. For those who are not venerated, or remembered. Or, who are unknown.

Oh, thank you for that. You mentioned alcohol so many times and I wondered why? Oh ok, so that’s cool. And the other thing is the coins. What’s the significance of giving the three coins?

Oh the significance of giving the three coins is simple. We have to deal with the understanding of what is the cross-roads. The cross-roads being a place where both the physical and spiritual intersect and meet. A lot of things happen at the cross-roads. Giving three coins, or four, depending on how you are. My family does three. The reason why we do three is to acknowledge the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Got you. What is the what is the most important? What is the thing that stands out the most to you that your grandmother taught you, or said to you? That impressed you the most?

Be respectful and be mindful of your words and thoughts, because, walls have now. Anything could be listening! You don’t know who walks with said people. Be careful what you say. Be careful what you agree to. Be careful what you think. Be careful what you feel. Because, if anything that seen, or unseen, like, keens on and sees it as a threat. Oh, you better know what, you better know what the hell. You better know what’s up! I hope you know what you’re doing and how to protect yourself!

And the other thing is, well, be mindful of your thoughts and be mindful of what you feel. Be mindful what you say. Because, as a practitioner, you have to be so aware of your energy at all times. Because, even the slightest flex of a thought, you can end up accidentally jinxing and hexing and cursing someone and everything, and be sitting there like crap! Crap! Crap! And it’s like, yeah, it’s just crazy, because we’re human. We feel things, we think things. We get upset and stuff like that. But, as a practitioner, you have to be extra mindful because it’s simple. Speaking of, of, of a word could put something on someone and you don’t even mean it to.

Yes, absolutely. And I’ve noticed, I actually have to say this. I’ve noticed that you are always very measured with what you say. I’ve noticed that.

Not only measured with what I say, but also how much emotion I put behind that. Because, naturally, I’m a very passionate and intense person. And that has got me into trouble in the past, so much. And like in my adult years, I’ve been working on emotional discipline, so much! Feel my stuff.  Understand my stuff.  But, don’t lose my head in my stuff. Because, as much as I promote and try to create prosperity, in abundance and happiness, I try to keep the awareness. If I’m not careful, I  can easily burn it down with simple flecks of a thought, spoken of a word, or a flexi of pinkie. Without me even realizing it, because, I get angry. I get upset or this, that, and the other. Slowing down the momentum of the things I’m trying to build, or outright destroying it.

And then, I’m the one to blame about myself. Not the other person. Because, they might have triggered me, sure, but I’m the one who reacted in the way that’s not conducive to what I’m trying to do. So, I’m over here like, yeah, you might have made me angry, but shit! I’m the one who burned it down.

Yeah. I really admire the way you are straight up with your advice. You don’t bullshit around. You tell it how it is. But , there is compassion and love in your words. And even, if it is sometimes tough, love it. It comes through ,to me. I feel it quite strongly.

Some people, honestly, and this is something it’s just the nature of social media. Some people honestly do not like me, for that. They sit there and be like, you, you come off too intense! You’re too sharp. You need to be more mindful about what you say. And I’m like, Honey, this is my kitchen.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

If you don’t like it, you can get out. And also, I just tell it to people like this. I’m all like, Honey, I’m not intimidating. You’re intimidating. That’s the issue with you. Why should I have to dim my shine, just to make you comfortable? Make that make sense for me? Either get on my level, or get out of my way and out of my life. That’s simply put.

Do you know what? I so admire you. I wish that when I was your age, I had that level of understanding, that you did. That you do. And that attitude, because, oh my god, it would have made life so much easier. You learn as you grow. And I, I admire that. I do.

Don’t get me wrong. My social circle, my friendship circle, it is small. But, the ones who are there, they are genuine and true like no other. They really are. I scare away a lot of people. I really do. But, I don’t mind because the ones who step forward and I’m like, al right, I could get down with that. I like that. Shoot, ok, what do I need to do to get on your level? OK? It’s like you’re a real one, I like that. You’re genuine and true.

Yeah. The other thing I noticed about you, is that when you give messages from your ancestors, your whole voice and your whole affect changes. Your, your accent changes completely.

Yeah, it depends on who’s coming through and everything. Because, at the end of the day, I’m a conduit. I’m a bridge of communication when it comes to the spirits, and also my ancestors. It depends on which ancestor’s coming through. It really does. It really do. It really do. I  have one who has a thick, Gullah Geechee, Creole-Caribbean like, accent. I have one who has a deep, southern Texan accent. Because, that’s where he has always been for most of his life. I have some ancestors, that speak a completely different language! And I’m over here like I did not grow up learning that! Spirit guides can you interpret that for me, please?

Yeah. I think it must be the first one that you mentioned, the Gullah Geechee. Because, it’s quite a thick. More like what I’ve and I only have movies to go by. And I apologise for this, more like what you see in the movies, you know, in that sort of thing.

Mm hmm. I mean, and that’s also the tongue that I grew up with, most familiar the most. Especially with –  amongst the elders on my mom’s side. That’s how they talk. Now, my elder cousins, my mom, aunties and uncles, and also people who are my age or younger than me. For the most part, we don’t all have that accent, or the Gullah Geechee tongue, or flair to our vernacular. But, if you get us talking. It will come out.  If you get us around the elders. It will come out. Like, and some of my elders still do speak Gullah Geechee Creole and everything. And be like, we might not speak it, but they will say something, and we’d be like, yes’sum, no’sum. We do, we just, we just get to going. And we just, we just understand.

Yeah, that’s so cool. Look D., I could I could talk to you for hours and I’ve kept you for quite a long time now. Look. I’ve just, I just absolutely love talking to you.

I mean, it’s a pleasure being here, talking to you to as well.

Where can my listeners reach out to you, or contact you, if they would like to talk with you or have a consultation with you?

My Instagram is the easiest thing. It is at –  everything is lowercase. Afro underscore spiritual. You can reach out to me there and everything. It is my only account. Don’t fall for Afro spiritual one, or Afro Double I’s spirituals and all that stuff.  Like literally, because, scammers have been a big thing on Instagram. I tell you what my profile, the way to identify it and know that it’s the actual profile, is that, my scheduling system, my Calendly, is linked. And it is Calendly dot com backslash Afro rootworks, if you see that, it is highlighted in blue. That is my account. I post some of my TikTok content on there. Sometimes, I even post spirit messages on there. sometimes every now and again, I will splash a little bit. This is what I’m doing. my everyday life.

But, you can get in touch with me there. Just send me a message. I’ll accept it. I’ll answer any questions. If you wish to set up a sessions with me, schedule it through my Calendly and everything will automatically update with place of meeting.  When it is. Payment and all of that stuff.

Brilliant! And where do you see yourself going from here, in terms of what you’re putting out on social media?

Hopefully, eventually, my YouTube. Get that up and going and everything, and have a Patreon. But other than that, I mean, you know. Growing myself, not only spiritually, but also growing my business in a sense to eventually expand, to where I’m making, like, tailor-made oils and salves.  And balms, soaps, and like it just as, like spiritual items and stuff like that. Get to that point and everything. Having my own website and stuff.  But also, personally where my own journey. I’m going down the path of Orisha, deeper and deeper. And hopefully one day one day to be a crowned priest and eventually have my own house. And my own God’s children one day, if that is the will of Orisha. I’m just, I’m just that type of person was like, I will go wherever Orisha will take me.  I will go the distance wherever they allow me to. So, as long as it’s by their will and by the will of god, I will do it. Shoot.

Awesome. D., thank you so much for your time. And I’m really grateful, I’ve really, I’ve learned a lot. It’s been a really interesting conversation. I know we’ve gone all over the place and possibly – I tend to like my conversations to be organic and flow with a rather than . . .

There might be the spider energy that that normally walks with me, you know, weaving that web.

Right? True. Thank you for your time. I’ve really appreciated having you.

You’re welcome.

I’d like to thank D for his taking time out of his day to talk with us about a subject that is very dear to him. I have learned so much from our conversation and I trust that you all have enjoyed it as well. What started out as a very unusual way of connecting with a lovely person, turned into a great learning experience for me, and also it made me feel very humbled and saddened, yet again, for what all the enslaved African-Americans went through in the USA.

So, just before I close off this episode, I want to remind you all that this is the final episode in this season. Actually, the final one I am recording for this season. I’m taking a much needed break for four weeks. Whilst I try and round up some new and interesting guests for you all to listen to. But, during my break away I am going to replay one of the scariest episodes I’ve recorded in my nine seasons. So, for those who haven’t heard it before, you still have something to listen to whilst I am taking a break. I’m only going to play the first episode of the two, both are stand-alone episodes, so you can listen to the second interview from our podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com, or from any free podcasting apps, like Anchor, Apple, Spotify etc. All of my nine seasons episodes are available from any free app.

Today’s bumper music was called: African Heart from Simon Leng

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