Welcome, to all of you with curious minds. New or older listeners to the Walking the Shadowland podcast. It’s so good to have you here with us. It’s currently Halloween’s eve here in New Zealand and the Southern Hemisphere. So it’s a very good night to share this conversation with you all.

In this episode, we walk into the mysterious world of the supernatural with a first-hand account from a man who claims to have experienced unexplainable phenomena in what has become known as the “Bothell Hell House.”

Our guest today is Keith Linder, whose journey into the paranormal has captivated audiences and ignited debates within the realm of the unexplained. The Bothell House, located in Washington, became the focal point of Keith’s life as he grappled with strange occurrences, poltergeist activity, and an unrelenting sense of the uncanny.

Join us as Keith takes us through the chilling details of his experiences, sharing the highs and lows of living in a home plagued by supernatural forces. From strange markings on walls to objects moving mysteriously, to items spontaneously combusting.  Keith’s account raises profound questions about the nature of reality and the thin veil between the known and the unknown.

As we delve into the Bothell Poltergeist phenomenon, we’ll explore Keith’s investigations, the reactions from sceptics and believers alike, and the impact these experiences have had on his life. Are you willing to walk with me into the deepest, darkest parts of the shadowlands? Make sure you leave your lights on for this episode. Let’s begin.

 Keith Linder

Keith Linder is a professional in the IT field, having worked at some of the largest tech companies in the world, e.g., Dell, Microsoft, Phillips Healthcare, and Verizon.  Keith Linder’s hobbies include fishing, sports (particularly football and basketball), movies, and sci-fi. In 2012, Keith Linder and his girlfriend Tina relocated to a house in Bothell, Washington, near Seattle. Their experiences in that house introduced them to the paranormal community and forever changed their lives. Regardless of whether you believe in the paranormal or not, the evidence and stories presented here may make you reconsider your beliefs. One expert in the field, Robb Tilley of the Australian Institute of Parapsychology Research, has praised the thorough and well-researched nature of this case, ranking it alongside other famous poltergeist cases such as the Enfield Poltergeist, South Shields Poltergeist, Bridgeport Connecticut case, and the Matthew Manning case. The Bothell Hell House is a significant contribution to poltergeist research.

Marianne: Thank you so much for agreeing to share with me and my listeners the experiences that you  and your then partner Tina endured for a period of four years, wasn’t it?

Keith: Yeah, it was four years, 2012 to 2016. Three years for Tina, four years for me, but yeah, four years.

Right, that’s an incredibly long time to be dealing with poltergeist activity and all the accompanying, emotional things  and physical events that go with being subject to an extreme paranormal event that you endured. Can you perhaps talk us through, from the beginning, how it started for you?

Well, it started almost sort of cliché, it started very slow and almost unnoticeable. you know, as you read, me and Tina, we moved into the Bothell House, May 1st of 2012. we had been living at two separate places, had no activity in our place of residence before, that’s very important.

We’re not familiar with the paranormal. if you ask me April 30th, what a poltergeist was, 2012, I wouldn’t be able to tell you, let alone how can you tell your house is haunted, or how to make sure you don’t move into one. but the day of May 1st, 2012, We went to sign the papers of the home to get the keys, congratulate ourselves.

And it was a nice, normal, clear spring, blue sky day, birds chirping, kids playing outside. met the homeowner, and then, He left and then it’s just me and Tina in the home. Me and Tina have no children. We have no pets. The house was virtually empty and,  didn’t know it at the time, but know it now. And this was a precursor, a warning, if you will, while we were talking, we heard a kid cough.

And I always tell people the first,  weird thing about the kid cop is we were both talking and we both looked at each other after we heard it and we said, , was that a kid cough? It sounded like it came from one of the rooms upstairs. It was very distinct.  We might have talked about it for five minutes or so, but we did not go looking.Why would we?  We have no children. The house is empty. So we thought. But yeah, that would be, looking back. And obviously, you know, the history of how the story unfolds. That was day one.

And of course you didn’t think much about it because why would you?

Right,  why would we, why would anybody for that matter, in a sense of, we thought it had to have come from outside, and it felt weird, but it did sound like a kid cough, that will later on haunt us, especially with some of the revelations about the case, about the house,  that we’ll talk about, but yeah, talk about, being new or unfamiliar with the paranormal,  It’s always interesting,  to people who hear this story and those who study the story of how we were met with what some consider a low level activity, on the day of arrival. It’s just like a switch went on in the home of… The spirits being in the home, aha, they’re here, let’s do something. And it was the kid cough.

And did you or Tina have any, feelings about the house when you moved in? Were you aware of any, vibe that the house gave up? Or was it just a lovely, pleasant, beautiful home?

It was a beautiful home, and a beautiful neighborhood, a new home,  this is a single dwelling unit, two story, five bedrooms, two and a half bath, neighborhood was built in 2005, the home was built,  in 2005,  and obviously,  we toured the home, I want to say four to six weeks before moving in, and We fell in love with it right away.

We fell in love with it on Craigslist once we saw it. We were just going through the formality of touring the home. And,  we did.  But much later, the home was still being lived in when it was on Craigslist, but when it was finally empty, we toured it. We wanted the home right away. And we, I think, as soon as I got home after touring the home, told the homeowner, we’d like to submit our application.

And there were other people too. And he chose us, and we were glad, and yeah, we left off with no negative energy, no, this is weird, I don’t know, People always say, or Hollywood movies always say, well, you know, live in there, I want you to get out or whatever.  I disagree, especially with this house.

If there was any moment to convince us not to move in,  you would think logically it would be the day of us touring the home, you know? Right. We don’t want y’all to move in, so I’m not saying they would have to throw something or make a noise or something, because there’s nothing in the house to throw.

But, there could have been a negative vibe or a premonition or something, , like we all do.   I’ve took many places that I thought I wanted to live in, and after viewing it, changed my mind upon arrival. There was none of that here. This home was welcoming, it was bright, it was lovely, it was clean, everything was new inside. Front, backyard, neighborhood, I deduced the neighbors were okay,  and they were,  so yeah.

Wow.  Just, you can’t tell from outside appearances sometimes. Can you? And often these things lay in wait. Until, people are comfortable and settled. Although, obviously, they let themselves, be known straight away. But that could have easily been a kid coughing in the street that you heard.

Yeah, easy, yeah. Nothing else ever happened we had forgotten about the kid cough, really. Only until the other activity unfolding that we have to rewind ourselves back mentally and be like, Aha, that’s what, aha, oh, oh, oh, okay. Now we’re playing catch up and that’s by design in my opinion for Portugal is the homeowner, the occupants. Always playing catch up. There are minuscule things happening all the time that the brain just ignores or, forgets about, and just keeps on trucking.

But finally, that crescendo in every poltergeist story, including ours, has that crescendo. I call it the moment of truth. When you can’t disavow anymore, when you get to levitation and floating objects, those can be disavowed,  there’s no disavowing those, and that’s what happened a few weeks later with the flying, or the levitating plant, while watching people, the plant darted up, off the ground.

Plants don’t do that. Nowhere on the Continent, dart up, and spin around. And this one did, and it did it in front of both of us, while watching TV, and then it fell to the ground. And now we have to play catch up. Now we’re a few weeks in, and we’re like, Oh, okay, that’s what, oh, okay. Alright, that’s what the…

Kid toys on the staircase, kid toys on the countertop,  my missing car keys, Tina’s missing jewelry, waking up and finding the kitchen cabinet doors wide open,  because those things, even though they are more physical, Even then, as you read in the book, we thought we were being pranked. We thought we had a home intruder.

We thought maybe it was neighborhood kids, previous tenant or their previous tenant’s kids. And you notice in the book, I had a home security installed to rule that out. And the phenomenas kept on coming, kept on happening. But yeah, we thought we were being pranked. Somebody was, playing a joke on us.Which we didn’t think was funny, but oh well.  So yeah, then that happened. But the plan did what it did. Yeah, we knew. Okay, ah, this house has a, we have  a third occupant. You know?

Right. So from the cough, it was a slow build-up over several weeks, but it started immediately.

Started immediately. Pretty much. It started immediately. It started,  every precursor, every activity was a precursor to the next activity. Right. And there’s a pattern of what you call a snowball effect, if you will. Things are going to gradually, pick up, especially after the acknowledgement, after we saw the plant dart up into the air.

Yes. It’s like the seal then had been broken. Everybody’s  of the realization we have a ghost. They know it now. We know it Now  they can do what they really wanna do, which is the loud banging, right, which was the door slams.  Many of those would be, Tina taking a bath or shower in a door slam,  on her. Plants start being thrown, downstairs, projectiles, not necessarily in our vicinity or our path, but definitely our peripheral, obliterating upon impact from the wall, the footsteps, the phantom footsteps, the pitter patter noise in the hallway, the pitter patter noise, arriving home, put the key into the key lock, open the door, and you hear a thundering, a scurry away, going upstairs, that happened an awful lot, so yeah, and then the lights, off and on.

There’s several videos on my YouTube channel, cause my YouTube channel is like a video diary of the phenomena. Four years worth of poltergeist phenomena,  very authentic, very genuine, hardly edited, hardly touched. don’t spruce it up, I don’t, edit it or like to pull punches, I give it to you. As it was, some of these videos were filmed minutes or seconds or during the activity. So you see the lights go off and on, you see me and Tina nowhere in the room, you see the light switch, some videos contain, you can see the light switch, clear as day, and the lights are going off and on, but nobody’s near the light switch. These were early on activity, so yeah.

How did this make you and Tina feel when, well particularly when you saw that initial plant levitate? That must have been really scary.

Actually, it wasn’t. The plant levitating didn’t scare us because We saw the plant levitate.We went to my office and we got on the computer and we asked, how can you tell your house is haunted? what are the signs? Right? So, right. And the answer we got was,  this is , how you can tell, it’s like five things.  We were having missing object. Objects apparently neither one of us owned,  phantom footsteps. I think a few websites said a kid cough or kid noise, levitation or whatnot. But we thought it was the kid ghost. Now we went back in time and said, oh, that’s what the kid coughed, ah, kid ghost, okay.

That would be a reasonable assumption.

Yeah, we said, okay, kid ghost,  kind of weird, but unfortunately, maybe a kid died in the house. You know, we don’t know.  I looked it up. I didn’t find anything. I didn’t find any, notice of a death in the home. In Washington,  you’re not required to disclose it some states in America you are, but Washington’s not a,  you must disclose. But the home was new, so we didn’t find much as to death, either in or outside. And that was good, that relieved us, so we weren’t scared. Where the trepidation and fears came in was the door slams. and the flying plants. And when that started picking up and happening almost daily, then we started like, I don’t know, kid, ghosts, because we would tell the ghost, the kid, hey,  we’d appreciate it if you would stop that.

This is what the instructions on the website told us to do, of anything, ask it to kindly stop, ask it to kindly leave, hey, this is our home,  stop that, please leave, be at rest, be at peace.  We mean you no harm,  we mean this house no harm, in case the ghosts are protective of the home and we’re like, hey, we’re not here to harm the land underneath the house, or the house, or you, so you don’t have to throw all this stuff around, just be at peace and leave and go to the light and we’ll take care of this place,  for you, but we got the opposite reaction, which is more banging, more objects being thrown, and more what you would call a,  Bad prankster joke, you know, if I turn a light off in a room that you’re in and close the door,  That’s a prank. That’s a joke. That’s to get a rise out of you. I don’t do it. I’m downstairs and Tina’s taking a bath and it does it on its own. That’s a prop. That’s a, whoa, okay. If I’m eating dinner and a plant goes flying by, you know, Tina paid money for those plants. Those are proper. Yeah. And they obliterate.

These are live plants. And they died, that’s a problem. Hey, stop doing that. But they don’t stop doing it, they’re doing more. So we stop thinking, not kid ghosts anymore, and we start getting nervous because the brain or ourselves, where is this going, you know? Right, of course. What’s the end game here? So we start contacting churches,  talking to family members, friends, hey, we think our house is  weird, it’s haunted, what do you do? Oh,  you call the church and my upbringing, I even said in my book about my upbringing, you bless the house, right? You’re supposed to bless it before you move in. And we didn’t do that regrettably,  but never too late. And we did, and that would slow the activity down for a day or two, definitely did prevent it.  And several churches came in and blessed the home. Some of them, we told them why we wanted them to bless the home and they understood, rather than, you know, some we didn’t, but everybody always came eagerly to bless the home. so yeah.

And so, the activity would settle for a short period of time after it was blessed and then it would pick up again. Would it pick up worse than before you had the house blessed?

Before the house guests?

I’m sorry. That’s my accent. Once you had the house blessed, the activity settled down for a little bit. And then, when it picked up again, was it worse than prior to the blessing of the home?

The blessing of the home would lessen the activity or quell it for about a day or two. So we had 48 to 72 hours of peace. And we thought, okay, all right, maybe that worked. Then on day two or day three or day four or something. It will come back of what it was doing previously. Bam! You know? Right. You’d be in your room or your office. I’d be on my computer or watching TV in a plant. Bam! You know? And they were like,  ah, okay, they’re back. Or, you know. And they’re more frequent. So whenever it stopped, it would come back, sometimes stronger, but then it’d be more frequent. And then we’re back to where we started from, okay, what do we do now?

The blessing didn’t work. And some of the websites told me, well, you gotta be strong, you gotta be firm  keep asking them to get out. Don’t stop that at all, just keep asking. Right. These things will taper down over time. These things will. Die off on their own. But no, things become more frequent and something new would get added to the frequency, like I said. Then came the gray lady. The apparition. So that is an escalation of activity. One day I was in my office typing, working, and the lights in my office went off and I heard a click. It would click, your light switch and I turned toward the doorway and there was a woman standing there. And I tell people, ’cause I can remember like it happened yesterday, this woman was standing there, not Tina, obviously, but a full what y’all term in the paranormal is a full-bodied apparition.

I didn’t call it, I just call it a woman. But she was all gray. She was 100 percent gray, solid, she was not illuminating, she was not translucent, see through, or had a light around her, none of that Hollywood stuff. But and I guess it was clear as day, then she turned sideways. I’m sitting in the dark in my office, lucky there’s the light on in the hallway, and there’s a reason for that. I’ll set it up in a minute. She’s trying to go to the room to my left, which is the washroom, the laundry room, and she’s not having good luck getting through that door. She’s not trying to open the door like you and I would, which is interesting in itself, you and I wouldn’t try to walk through it, we’d try to open it and go in.

She’s trying to go through the door, okay, and she can’t. And I say in my book, I think my observing her prevented her from going through the door. Because soon as she turned her back to me, and then starts darting down the hallway, the corner, I still don’t know what I’m looking at. so I give chase, I rise up out of my seat, this is all happening within a second or two, less than two seconds, and go after her. So this is more instinct than logic. I’m going after something, I don’t even know what it is. I don’t know. My brain is saying Tina, but I know it’s not Tina. It doesn’t look like Tina. What would I do if I got on the other side of the hallway and caught up with whatever this was?

I don’t know. Lucky for me, when I turned the hallway, just like in the movies, it was gone. now I’ve made a physical act by walking and pursuing something that’s not there. I went into the bathroom and talked with Tina. Tina was taking a bubble bath. And I looked at Tina, and my eyes were as wide as they are right now, and I said, I saw it. I saw it. I was very eager and excited in a shock way. And Tina looked at me like, you saw what? What do you mean you saw it? I’m like, I saw it! And what I mean by that was, up until now, we’ve had a lot of activity. And up until now, we’ve not had a… Face, if you will, to associate with the activity, been invisible,  behind the scenes.

when I saw I was like, Tina, I saw it. I think I saw it was a woman and I think I saw Who’s responsible for the plant levitation, the plants being thrown the electrical issues, the kid toys we’re finding. Not saying that she was or is responsible for all those things, but now I have a physical face and body to associate with those things. Now, I did not know at the time, but I know now, like I said, going back to the original beginning of this is, things are escalating. Apparition sightings is the term the program has labeled this, an apparitional sighting or full bodied apparition. It could be male or female. In my case, it was female.

She was 100 percent gray. There are known to be apparition sightings in not all, but some poltergeist cases. There have been reports. of apparitional sighting, meaning Keith, all your activity you said so far, that’s normal. Right. What you just said about the apparition is normal too, but to a lesser degree. It’s interesting, and it still is to this day, why she was gray and full-bodied and turned off my light, took off running, or whatever, because she definitely wanted to get my attention.

I was just gonna say that, yeah.

She definitely wanted to get my attention. By turning off the lights, if you watch my video and you read my book, you know, we’ve been having off at all light issues before I saw the gray lady. And I know enough about spirits today is they don’t have to physically be by a light switch to turn it off. Right. We do they don’t, but this one did what I find interesting that’s what I laugh about in my book is she did all this to get my attention. But didn’t really plan her exit strategy because she could not get through the door to the left of her. Why that door? And She had to, dart down the hallway to get out of my eyesight to disappear. As soon as you hit the light switch, the human brain or the ear is going to always turn in the direction of the sound. That’s just a natural instinct. So I go over here, I turn over here. I don’t turn over there. I turn toward the direction of the sound. That’s what I did. If she was standing there  I think she could easily hit the light switch and the light goes off and I turn toward the light switch and nobody’s there. That would have been interesting too. But, oh. I heard the click, but nobody was at the light switch. But no, she was there. So, yeah, that was probably, the major event for the summer of 2012. But we’re still in July, August of 2012, we’ll be seeing the Grey Lady.

Do you feel with the benefit of hindsight, that perhaps it was necessary for you to see that woman so that you would become more engaged and they could therefore escalate their what they were doing in the home.

Yeah, me and Tina talked about that a little bit because Tina maybe lucky for her or I’m lucky, never saw an apparition. She never saw the Grey Lady  through the story that there was going to be a white apparition appearing two years later. She never saw that either. I did on both and I will see the great lady again as well.

So I’ve seen these things numerous times and the question is, why me? And do they know in advance that, hey, if we do this, we’ll get this response or get him to be more engaged? I think there’s some truth to that because obviously I did become more. Engaged I went out and bought the electronic cameras, the motion devices, the listening devices even when the gray lady I saw, I wasn’t scared. It’d be different if I saw a monster in my doorway, but, It was a woman. It was a modern woman. It was not an ancient or old fashioned whatever. This woman I saw lived could live today. Could live in our, in today’s world by the clothes that she was wearing.

So I don’t know. She I think it was who’s getting my attention. I think it wasn’t to increase engagement because, like I said, every activity is a precursor for the next activity. There was a lot of discussion. Me and Tina had a lot of discussion about the Grey Lady. Okay? A lot. Hard not to, yeah. And then… My question was, well, will I see her again? Obviously, I will, but not at the moment of my choosing.

Right, of course. so then it seems to me from the time you saw the Grey Lady, they tended to focus on you more than Tina.

Not yet, we’re a long way from them focusing more, more so on me. In 2012, majority of the activity me and Tina saw or experienced, we witnessed together. Right. The only thing I would say that separates us in 2012, as far as activity, was me seeing the gray lady. Tina would be in a room, or in the room next door, as would I, if a plant got thrown. We both heard the loud banging. We both saw the levitating plant by the TV. She’s had doors slammed on her more so than me. She would scream, and I would come charging to her scream. And so there’s that. I would hear the pitter-patter of footsteps, cause I arrive from work, through the front door.

Tina arrives through the garage. And she parks her car, her truck, in the garage and goes through the kitchen entry. So she didn’t report back to me a lot of hearing the pitter patter upon walking into the home. Right. I, however, coming home, park my car on the curb and walk up the patio or the driveway and walk through the front door, and it’s a little bit more.

You know, if we had children, like I was a kid, my parents would we’d get home early from school before our parents would get home from work. And if we didn’t do our chores, but we were watching TV, our parents could easily sneak up on us better, by coming through the front door versus the garage. because we cannot tell if they’re home by the time they got to the front door and they opened the door. Aha, what are you doing, watching TV, you know, doing your chores, we’re caught. Right. Coming to the garage door, you have to let the garage door up, and we can easily hear that as kids. Oh, parents are home, run! And then that’s door number one. Door number two is the actual door that leads to the home.

So, there may be some linkage there as to why I heard the pitter-patter. Always coming through the front door, and Tina never heard it or hardly heard it except the time she came through the front door, which is very rare, she mostly came through the garage door. So I would say we were about 60, 40, 55 yeah, I would say about, no, I would say about 60, 40 as far as the phenomena we witnessed, but most of them we saw the same thing. But you’re right, there’s gonna become a moment. Where the activity is going to happen to one person more than the other. And there’s moments in the book where the activity happened to Tina more. And there’s a lot of references in the book where the activity is going to happen to me more. Oh yeah.

Right. And up until this point, your relationship was still really good. You were getting along well and life was just going really great. Apart from the events that were happening in the home.

Yeah, the activity of 2012 compared to the activity of 2014 is night and day. Yeah, there was some benevolent activity in 2012. Throwing our plants is definitely benevolent. Outbangs, stomping, closing doors while you’re taking a shower. Those are, those are benevolent activities. But me and Tina were fine. We’re fine mentally as far as a couple. And we have a united front. but we both want the activity to stop. We’re taking proactive measures to make it stop. You read about me buying the sage. The smudging. To lay the Bible out, out in the open. But yeah, we’re team Keith and Tina. We’re still, believe it or not, glad at our decision to rent this house. We did not have any buyers or renters remorse with this activity. That will come later.

And by the time we started entertaining the thought of renters remorse, as you know, the activity did subside. And it subsided for a year, a little bit over a year and two months. It started lessening late. fall, early winter of 2012 and around November of 2012, they stopped on their own. We don’t know why, but they did. Now there’s a lot of things that happened before then that, once again, the ,Bible, the infamous Bible that caught fire in 2014. Would disappear in the summer of 2012. So we were glad. It was an aha! The activity is slowing down. Lessening. Maybe we don’t have to move after all. The websites with the advice they’re giving us, these things do taper off.

And at that time, the worst thing that had happened, even though it happened frequently, was the throwing of objects, So we were like, okay, alright, no harm, no foul, these things taper off. And we had a whole year, 2013, interesting number, 2013 of no activity. but, the advice from websites were, well there’s two things that’s gonna happen is, the activity is going to taper off,  and it’ll never come back. It’ll never happen again. You guys, you got a story to tell. Every Halloween, you got a good story to tell. Okay. If it does come back, and nobody knows when, it could come back very quickly, soon, or whatever, and the website’s had references of other cases. If it does come back, it’s always worse than before. And they were right.

The things this case is known for that made it get international attention is the activity that happened in 2014. Right. It’s only when people dissect the case that they learn, oh, oh,  I always get upset when people are like. Ah, you’re just in it for attention. Ah, you’re trying to get some, you know, when we were publishing our story. It’s because they act as if this stuff started happening yesterday. Right. No, we’ve been dealing with this for a year or two years. It’s just now reaching your eyes and ears, Mr and Mrs. world. We’ve been dealing with this for two years before it reached the press. Before it reached the newspapers. Three years before it reached the internet. If we were seeking attention, we could have went public at the first plant that levitated by the TV, or the plants flying.

We didn’t do that, Right. Only when the activity came back in 2014. And rightfully so, because as you know, the activity was worse. We’re talking about objects catching fire. Yes. Heavier objects being thrown. Large objects being thrown the poster catching fire. Three Bibles. One that we saw with our own eyes abruptly catch fire, two squirts beyond recognition. Shadowy figures. And the wall writings. Those things, deserve other eyes and ears on it because it’s going to get worse. It’s going to get very worse for Keith and Tina. And that’s when you’re going to start seeing our relationship strain as the activity gets worse.

So what was the first thing that happened when it restarted?

How they let us know that they were back is like this and I think they’re linked, and they are linked. On January 2nd, I had a fall down the stairs.  I was coming down the stairs, glass of water and I got to the midway landing and… Bam, on the floor. I had tore my right patella tendon off my knee, which is my kneecap. Tore it off. Yes. Fast forward to four or six weeks later, after surgery. Tear a tendon. The kneecap off, all they could do is surgery to repair it, put it back on. So now I am housebound and constricted only to the upstairs because Tina has to work, someone has to earn a living, and it’s a two-story home. I’m handicapped with only use of one leg. The other leg, which is my right leg, has to stay straight, straight for considerable time. And so I’m restricted to the upstairs when alone. And that’s what I did. I stayed upstairs. All day until Tina returned home but really for about four or six weeks I never came downstairs.

But while home by myself as I’m sleeping, nodding in and out while watching TV in my bed, I’m hearing noise downstairs as if somebody is home. I’m hearing somebody like somebody’s going and rummaging through the kitchen cabinets. And so I wake up and I’m like, Tina, are you home? Is that you? Maybe Tina came home early. Maybe Tina left or forgot something, and I get no answer. Tina? So now I’m worried, okay, well who’s rummaging downstairs and it’s not Tina? Okay is it a burglar? So I would limp out of bed and go to the hallway and look over the railing or the banister, whatever they call that, and call out again.

Tina, y’all? No answer. And then the noise would stop. Okay, so I thought that was weird. And that’s never happened before, even in 2012, because we’re not home during the day. Alright? Right. Now you got a person who’s home all 24 7, alone, in this gigantic house. And so when Tina would come home after work, I was like, hey, I’m hearing noises while upstairs. I’m hearing noises. And she’s like, I don’t know what to tell ya. And in the back of my mind, I was like, okay I hope it’s not them, you know, the ghosts. Yeah. And Tina didn’t want to talk about it. She’s like, no, we ain’t, no, no, we’re not gonna, they’re gone. We’re not, you know, we’re not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth.

They’re gone. Right. So I’m like, okay, all right. And then through other times I would wake up or sleeping, Tina’s back at work, and I would hear a knock on the headboard, my head, you know, I’m laying in bed, headboard behind you. A knock or scratching, you know, like a cat trying to get into a room, and I’m hearing all this coming from the headboard.  Tina come home again. Hey Tina , how was your day at work? We’re eating. Man, while I’m sleeping. I hear a knocks on the headboard. She said, no, we’re not, we’re not going to talk about it. They’re gone. You just, it’s your meds. It’s your pain meds. Okay, maybe this is my pain meds… So…

Well, that’s a reasonable assumption, isn’t it, really?

Yeah, so I’m like, okay, this is powerful stuff. So, truth, honest to God. Honest truth. I start taking the pain meds and cut them in half. And just like, I need to roll back on these painmeds. So, instead of one pill, I start taking half a pill. So I’m like, okay, maybe it is that?  They’re giving me this powerful stuff and  it’s a hallucinogen. All right. Okay. Whatever.  I’m not going to talk about 2012. That was the rule. That was the mental rule me and Tina had. But in the back of my mind, I know it’s not the meds, but okay.  If I talk about Tina it’s going to lead to an argument. I don’t want an argument., I just, I just, okay, I’m not going to confide in her. Well, sometime in, I think it was March or early April. It was a Sunday. And we’re going to bed and woke up, I had a feeling of uneasiness like we were being watched and I have not had that feeling since 2012.

And I was looking around, I was like, man, this doesn’t feel right. And I went downstairs. Look through the refrigerator, praying Tina had some sage and woo-hoo. She did. she was sage to cook with thing, right? But I knew sage is sage. If I get a sage on the refrigerator and dehydrated or dry it out in the oven. I got dry sage. That’s what I did. I put it on the oven and watched it, you know, did lots drying out, but then got it out and it was all dry. It’s kind of the dry sage you buy at a store. I put it on a saucer pan and it’s smoldering. Oh yeah, it smells. And I’m going through the house doing this and I’m saying to… Tina’s asleep! And would be very upset if she caught me doing what I’m doing. Because she don’t want to talk about ghosts. So I’m going, dah, dah, dah, dah, hey, leave, this is our house, whatever. And then I sit the sage on the bookshelf in the hallway and go to bed. Right. And let it smolder itself outside. I’m going to let you stay here, go to bed. And I remember we heard a loud crash soon after that. Choo, choo, choo, choo, choo, choo.

And I remember we both darted up, because now Tina heard that, she’s awake. Letting her know there’s no sleeping through that. Right. And we run to the hallway and Tina has this giant armoire.  We bought this armoire after we moved into the house at the garage sale a few blocks down from the Bothell house. A neighbor was selling it. And we moved it upstairs and it’s set in the hallway or stood in the hallway. It’s almost taller than me. And when we saw it leaning over and it put a new hole in the wall, new dent. My s aucer with the sage was obliterated on the floor. Tina saw all that. She was able to know right then and there, like I knew, what had happened. And when she saw that, she immediately started crying because she knew they were back. And they were. After that day, everything they did before became a daily or nightly occurrence.

With the exception of the objects are now bigger. And they’re more frequently being thrown. One of the things that frightened Tina the most, up until now, up until that night or that morning, was the door slamming on her while taking a bath or shower. That just always got underneath her. And rightfully so, you’re very vulnerable. Yeah. Bathing yourself, doing something like that, and the door slams shut on you. Because we’ve seen a lot of movies. Hollywood has perfected that. Yeah.  Right. And then to add insult to injury, turn off the lights. It’s a frightening feeling to be feeling your way in the dark after a door has been slammed. Because in your brain, you’re like, is somebody in the room with me? or who’s on the other side of the door once I open? Those two things, because that happened to me. When I had doors slammed on me, and lights cut off. Those went through my mind as I’m finding the door in the sweat. Okay, did they slam the door because they want to be in the room with me?

Am I going to bump into them as I make my way to the door? Is this how it is? Is this how you find Keith? Or if I open the door, they’re on the other side. Right. your survival mode is, I gotta open the door. I gotta turn on the light. Be it the end of me or not the end of me. And your fear factor, your adrenaline is off the charts. And whatever Spirit did that. If they were low on energy that day, they got a truckload. After doing that. You know, if they ever woke up, you know,? Gosh, Yeah! In the spirits world, hey guys, we’re going to do what we do. Let’s go turn the lights off and keep the Tina while taking a bath and slam the door. That’s what they do because the fear factor of Tina and me is tremendous. And rightfully so. So, I understood why Tina was crying. Because Tina knew that that was going to start happening to her again. What we both did not know is that’s the least of our problem. We are about to encounter spontaneous combustion.

 A few days after that, Tina’s going to be attacked in the home while she’s by herself. That’s never happened before. Tina’s going to have the lights on the ceiling blow up in her face. That’s never happened to me before. Tina’s gonna run out the house, literally run out the house. Now we’re running. Okay, remember it’s reversed now. We’re running and leaving everything on in the process. Tina’s going to have to turn back around while going to work because she’s going to get a call from me saying, come back to the house. The house is under attack. And when she pulls up to the driveway, there are two fire trucks parked in the street.

Smoke is billowing out my office window, and when Tina walks in, I’m half naked doing this, and the fire department is trying to figure out how the poster in my office caught fire, whereas On my point of view, remember that morning, I had taken a shower, once again, vulnerable, heard the fire alarms go off, run out the shower, fire alarms are going off, this is in the morning, Tina had just left for work, and when I get to the doorway of our bedroom, which leads into the hall, something runs past me, thundering down, something is running from my office, which is where the fire and the smoke was, and running down the stairs and the front door opens on its own and slams shut on its own. I, more on instinct than logic, run down the stairs. And try to open up the door that was open a second ago, just a second ago, and it’s sealed shut. I can’t open, you know, it’s like a force. I’m pulling it this way and something’s got his hands like, nope, not doing it. The house is billowing with smoke. And only then do I run upstairs and see my poster on fire and then call 911. And then while calling 911, every time I give my address to the operator. Hey, my house is on fire, I want to report a fire.

Okay, sir, what’s your address? every time I would give my address, know, 123 ABCD, static. Only the time when I would give my number address. Sir, you break up, I can’t. It will break up only when I give the numerical address. It happened three times, and two minutes later, Tina’s coming, so she got the call for me to turn back around, the fire department beat her there, and they said, when they come back, they’re always worse. And that’s just week one of them being back. We still have ten more months to go, because we had ten months of activity. Non stop, beginning in March.

So it was really war against you.

Oh yeah, all the gloves are off.  And the fire department couldn’t understand what caused the poster to burst into flames. It wasn’t near any electrical source, it was just on the wall. Nope. It was interesting the way the manner in which it was burned. It’s not covering up an electrical outlet, it’s not near a heat lamp, it’s not near an electrical source or heat. The only thing you can deduce as to what caused it, if you’re a fire person or anybody else besides Tina, is one of y’all had to have done it. Well, they knew I didn’t do it. I mean, they got a good indication I didn’t do it. It was just weird. Tina was at home, so they saw Tina when she came home. She’s frantic, I’m frantic, shaking and crying like a wet puppy. and yeah, and they wrote in their report, but unknown or whatever They were glad that I put it out, which I did. I used my towel to douse the fire. But like I said, in my book, there was so much smoke and the alarms were still going off for a while.

I thought there was a fire somewhere in the home that I couldn’t get to. And I was like, if the Portuguese started this fire, let’s say it started in the attic and I couldn’t get to it, this house is toast. I’m going to go down with the fire.  They’re not going to know what happened to Keith. He was going to be like, I left home ten minutes ago. So I called the fire department because I wanted somebody to get there to save me. I couldn’t get out the front door. But I don’t know how long that door was going to stay sealed shut. Yeah, exactly. Mentally, you know characteristically unlocked, open by itself. Once the fire department got there, but by then the damage was done. I mean, the fear factor of me.

Oh Gosh, yeah.

There was no other fire in the home. Thank God. They wrote a report. They can’t write poltergeist on a report. They’re just gonna write unknown.

Right. Yeah. Wow. So that was just the beginning of a lot of spontaneous combustion events, particularly with the Bibles you had in your home. And I understand photos of you that you had stored or family photos where only your face was burnt out of the photo. Yeah.

Yeah. So I’m glad you brought that up because it’s not talked about a lot And it’s very interesting. So, you’re right. so Bible one. Went missing in 2012, summer 2012. I left her downstairs, I was smudging, went to bed. Tina was out of town that night. So she wasn’t even at home when the Bible 1 went missing. I woke up the next day, it was missing, That’s 2012. Bible missing for a year, almost a year and a half. Fast forward to 2014 when the activity comes back. We’d had so much activity one night, to where that night we were awakened by the fire alarms. and we’d had so much activity we slept with our door closed. And anybody who understands fire or whatever, Knows that’s one of the worst feelings you can have in a home  is your fire alarm going off, especially while sleeping, once again, vulnerable. And I looked underneath the door of my bedroom door and I could see lights, you know, like a fire.  And I opened the door and I’m looking this way, cause I’m thinking, it’s fire, you know, we’re dead, whatever. No, no, there’s no fire here.

The fire’s in my feet. There’s something at my feet that’s on fire. I look down. Oh, there’s a book on fire. Okay, and it’s illuminating the entire hallway. There’s ash, there’s soot, everything I close the book with my foot and douse the flames, put it out immediately. Only then do I realize that’s the Bible that went missing a year and a half ago.  And I saw, oh, That’s the Bible that was gone. So I pick it up, ash and all this stuff, but I feel a bulge in it. There’s a bulge in it and I open it and there’s a wooden cross, yay big. the cross I had bought off Amazon a few weeks ago from Jerusalem and it came all that way and I hung it over our bed for protection.

And we went to bed that night. It was over our head, our headboard, but it was in the Bible now. so yeah, so that’s, that’s the first bible, and then, you’re right, the pictures, this is interesting. Now, you’re gonna get into where the spirits go from haunting both occupants, Keith and Tina, at the same time, to where they’re gonna divide it up a little bit. And by that I mean, we’re gonna haunt Tina sometimes, Keith? Like, when she was attacked when she was a home alone. And like I was attacked when I was home alone with the postal catcher fire. We’re gonna do those things. For you, Keith, this is what we got in store for you.

I have a photo album.  These photos that you talked about that are pictures in my book, the first book, are deeply embedded in boxes in my closet. They’re deeply embedded in photo albums. I have not pulled them out or looked at them since I lived in the Bothell home. They’re photos, heirlooms. It was only then at the height of the activity of coming home and there’s a video of me coming into my office and you see these photos neatly placed out on my computer desk. The office is in shambles. The cross that was hanging in the hallway above the Bible is I’ll say scissored into the wall because they took a scissor out of my cup holder and used the scissor to nail the cross to the wall or my photo. first photo they used was yay big. They took a scissor, like this one, and they stuck it through the photo of my head, right here is where it was on the photo. Right. And stuck it through the wall. Right. And I see that, and the scissors, and I take the scissors out and I say oh my god, it’s through  my forehead, that’s a negative connotation. The other photos are on the computer desk and I’m picking them up and I’m looking at them. It’s me with my family. And you’re right. My face has been burnt out. Only my face. My mom, my dad, my siblings are all fine.

That was them letting me know because this is them, transitioning from haunting two people. To just start hunting you, Keith. You’re the guy we want. we’re about to make this really interesting because, malevolent Spirits, poltergeists included, it’s about, divide and conquer. Absolutely. Get you two, meaning Keith and Tina, working against each other. It’s about isolating, we’ll just go to the animal kingdom as an example. The predator always needs to separate the prey from the herd. Absolutely, yeah. You know, it goes to the prey and it separates and them. Once it can do that, its odds of capturing it go significantly up. And that’s what’s about to be happening. Tina’s going to start witnessing me being attacked and not know what to do. I’m going to start witnessing myself being attacked and not know what to do. And yeah, about five different photos some I even thought or forgot existed. and it’s very interesting because like I said, these things are deeply buried in boxes.

Now, I want your listeners to understand something. It’s not like the spirits when we’re at work, me and Tina are at work, and the spirits are coming into my office, and they’re moving boxes. And then rummaging through. That’s not how they do that. It’s quite possible these spirits had these photos from day one I moved in. I just didn’t know it. I believe, and that’s what I talk about in my third book, Poltergeist, The Nightside of Physics. I believe the spirits of these entities have the ability, that they took a mental and physical inventory of Keith and Tina. The mental inventory began the first day we walked through the door. And that’s when we heard the kid cough. Something about our mental inventory let them know, hey, we can get some mileage out of them. Right. The physical inventory came when we started bringing belongings And they took stock of that. ah, photos, ah, Tina’s jewelry. Ah, Keith’s, extra car keys. Ah, interesting. Now they don’t rummage like you and I would rummage, they’re not burglars.

But in the dimensions that they live in, all this stuff is like on a wall. You can just see it. It’s just splattered everywhere. So they just take it. But in our world, it’s like removing it,   in my book, I talk about my cast iron safes. Yes. I would put belongings in there because I got tired of them taking it. Me thinking, this is my mental, not them. I never confirmed with them what they couldn’t do. I just assumed they couldn’t do it. But assuming is nothing. So I bought safes, combination safes. Key safes and put my belongings in there, hoping that they would take it, only to learn very quickly a safe does nothing. I would go to my safe and look for my item and it’s gone. Now, they’re not going in there and typing the combination and taking my belongings. They just go through it, and take it. And that’s what they did. You know, wallet, car keys, driver’s license, birth certificate, credit cards, you name it, pictures. You just take it, so you’re right about the photos,

yeah. It’s really interesting. It feels to me when you were talking, they were laying out a battle plan. like, know your enemy. Know their strengths, their weaknesses, where you can hit them, and where it’s going to hurt the most. And it feels to me they were figuring out which was the best way. To attack you, to get what they wanted and it also feels to me like they focused on you because you’re the stronger one and you were the one who really wanted to fight back, so to speak, by purchasing the cameras and, trying to get verifiable evidence of what was happening.

Yeah, there’s an old proverb that’s true that says and I’m paraphrasing, be careful when you stare into the abyss, the abyss also stares into you. That could be never more true than when dealing with a poltergeist. And you’re right, when I, you could say to some extent I made it personal. You could say to some extent I gained an interest. An investment, because when I’m spending my money to buy electronic equipment to bring it to my house environment, and it takes a lot of preparation, a lot of mental thought, a lot of focus, a lot of planning to set these cameras up to get them working. turn them on, utilize the home’s utility just wait.

And while I’m doing all of that, even going to the store to shop on the shelves or buy online and wait for it to arrive by mail to cut open the box and pull it out to set it up or drive home with it in my trunk, talk to the store manager or the salesman at the store about which camera does what, which one does what. They are listening and watching all of that. I didn’t know that at the time. So when I come in the home with all these electronic gear, I say, hey Tina, look what I got. I’m gonna get these spirits now. Yeah, I dare you to throw something now.

I am being stupid. and I, admit it because ignorance is stupidity,. And I’m playing right into their hands. They’re like, we can’t make this stuff up. So, now it becomes a war. And that’s all they need. You know, as a willing participant, because you’re really standing at the guillotine, and you’re going to cut your own head off. Just like the executioner giving you the rope. You just don’t know it yet. He doesn’t know, by doing what he’s doing, it’s going to make us manifest more. More are going to come. and yeah, it’s going to be open season on Keith Linder, and it was, as you saw, it was, there was a time, especially early, winter of 2014 and spring of 2015, where,  you saw the wall writings.

We got this guy.  We can forget about Tina, but this guy keeps us more interested. And it’s just attack, attack, attack,   I can’t sleep, attack at work, attack while traveling on business, attack, attack,  frame him, manipulate him, make Tina think he’s cheating, make Tina think he’s doing this. We’re going to isolate him. We got him. His computer monitors catch on fire. We got all that. Look at my office from when I moved into the Bothell house and look at it four years later. It’s like two different offices. And Wow, the walls look different. The walls were nice and clean and well painted when we moved in but look at it now. It’s got all these paint marks and burnt marks and fire residue and wall writings, painted over wall writings. The office, it’s all disheveled. And that’s the war. That’s the war  I wish people, you know, could focus on about this story because it’s very dark. And you’re right. Focusing. And nothing’s working. Priest’s are coming in, nothing, is working. And yeah, it’s bad, it’s, It’s like a F5 torpedo, a Cat5 hurricane.

Yeah, really bad.  Now, going back to the writings on the wall I remember thinking how impressed I was as I was reading your book that you recognized why the spirits had been writing 666 on your wall. And I thought perhaps you could explain a bit about that. For my audience, because I felt that was a very good insight on your part. Some people wouldn’t help us or take us seriously because of the 666. I theorized in my book, and I believe it to be true, that was not for us. That was to whoever sees or receives Keith and Tina’s distress call. You can just ignore them because these guys, they’re fake or whatever. 666. It’s been done so many times, I’m surprised Keith even did that. And it worked on some. On people who saw it and didn’t take us seriously. And I was like, you know, there’s two sides of the coin when you think about paranormal or poltergeist is, they want to isolate the house occupants from the outside world.

They want to do all this we can call fantastical stuff in front of the house occupants’ eyes. But they want to contain it. They’re not interested in being known, being discovered. Proving that poltergeists are real. Those entities exist. That demons are real. That’s not why they do it. If they did that, all they could do is hold a press conference. Okay? No, they don’t care about that. And if we go out to reach for help, one of the things they need to do as far as to inoculate us, is to make some of the things happening around us look like anybody could do it. To make it look, childish or, hoaxing. And that’s what that was all about. Because we had so many people saying, well why would they draw 666 and then draw the upside down man which we know today was a Native American symbol. Why would they draw an upside down cross next to a Native American symbol? The two don’t go well together.

Christianity and Native American, what spirit would do that? Well, you’re thinking one dimensional. You’re playing checkers while the poltergeists are playing chess. And they’re winning. And, Zach Baggins, for all his experience, I was really perturbed that he let that get the best of him, the 666. Because the other parapsychologists and Steve Merrill and Don Phillips. Those who study poltergeist know that you just can’t see something on the wall and say  it looks like this or it’s that or that. You can’t be easily manipulated. And a lot of people were manipulated by the 666. Ironically and funny. Keith and Tina who were at ground zero were not. Right. People who can sleep in a room or next to a room with 666? I’m like, we can. Because I knew, based on my upbringing, and I knew, 666, yeah dude, okay, alright. That’s for you guys. That’s for you outside world looking in, so y’all can go ha ha ha. And people did. You can see many critiques go toward the 666 about the House.  I just laugh at people like, well, they got you. They tricked you. Their plan worked. Their psychological plan worked.

Which brings up another point. At one stage you reached out to the press for help, initially. And then you were contacted by a specific person who got you in touch with the Ghost Adventures crew. Now I personally saw that episode.  This was some years ago,  I live in New Zealand. So we get these things later. Well, we did at that stage. And I knew I was – but also I come from a knowing of how television works and how they put these paranormal shows together, but that was just out and out a hatchet job. And the fact that they were smart enough not to outright say that they didn’t believe you. But leaves the innuendos hanging. So people would assume that you were a fraud.Was really A dreadful thing that they did to you. And I’m so sorry that that happened. I’m so sorry that you got all this horrible public backlash, particularly Tina. I don’t know why they targeted Tina so much, but they did. And it was just awful. And I’m sorry you went through that.

Yeah, I mean, looking back on it, it was a weird experience. I always tell people if you come to the Bothell House we give people access. I mean, we give witches access, priests access to do whatever it is they want to do to find evidence. I cannot predict what the spirit will or won’t do while you’re present. I can’t predict what it will do when I’m present, and I live here. Every event I’ve talked about, like today with you, and in my book, we didn’t know that was coming. There was no prediction of that. And I knew when they arrived, at the home. When they told us weeks in advance before they got there, how many hours they were going to dedicate to actually investigating. And they wrote, because they give us a little sheet itinerary before they arrive.

And they arrive on the last day anyway, but it’s the B team who arrives there day one, day two, day three. They arrive day three, day four. And they only dedicate five hours to actual investigating. And at that time, the activity was showing signs of subsiding. We were looking at what we were doing in the winter months of 2012, when the activity was tapering off. But I knew five hours was nothing because me and Tina had been in the home when we’ve not had activity for 48 hours. Yeah. Five hours is, nothing. But even then I said, well, okay. You get nothing, you get nothing. Not my fault. You’re chasing lightning in a jar, right? So when it aired two months later, and we saw the episode, me and Tina look like, who is that?

Because It was edited totally different than how it was filmed .  and a lot of what you see in that episode, when Zach’s talking. And I noticed at the time, one of the formats of the show is this voiceover. This conversation amongst the team members. But a lot of his narration of Zach in a studio. He’s got maybe a terabyte of footage from being at a location. A terabyte. And now he’s got to be in the editing room with his producer. Got to do, provide narration over what they want to show the world. Right. Had they caught evidence or shred of evidence, they would have showed that episode differently. They would have put themselves in a more positive light. They would have been seen as the hero riding in on the white horse, literally. We’re here to save the day. You kind of sort of see that when Zack walks through the door. We’re here to save Keith and Tina, from themselves. But the spirits did not give them an ounce of evidence to do that. And so the only thing they could do to save face, because up until now, and I was not familiar with the show. But I was told this by people who are familiar with the show, even fans, up until that time, they always get evidence everywhere they go.

They make it look so simple. Yeah, yeah. So easy. Like evidence! Got it. And the people I talked to in the paranormal community were telling me, because I’m not in that community, that no, man. Man, I’ve been doing this for 20 years and I don’t get nothing. I still believe in it. Or I got something. Or I didn’t. I mean, you gotta be something. Or either make repeat visits. Live in a location, like live at the site. Spend enough time with the house occupants. You definitely don’t send the house occupants away. you sort of curtail your own investigation by doing that. So they have to do the opposite. They have to make Tina and me the scapegoats. They have to make it seem like we over-exaggerated. That something’s wrong with Tina. Which is farthest from the truth.

And we became the scapegoats to their fans. Because they cannot tell their fans we got nothing except for the fact that they should have told their fans. Hey, we came, we saw, investigating a phenomenon like this, an activity that’s very difficult, it’s very hard to do. We’re only here for a short period of time. However, we’re going to maintain communication and contact with Keith Linder. My name is Zach Bagans. I want to maintain contact with you, Keith. Will you do anything this time?  We may have to do some sort of repeat trip or whatever. But you got my number. And that’ll be that. Then they’ll be like, oh, okay. All right, yeah. Investigations like this are hard, but they didn’t do that. They want to close it up and shut it down and be like, no, they’re there. Tina’s weird. House is not haunted. Bible, this, that, whatever. So yeah, and their fans ate it up and then attacked me and Tina, which is very weird to attack the house occupants. Number one, we weren’t there when they did their investigation. And number two, they found us. We didn’t find those signatures. They found out.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they contacted you.

Yeah, they contacted me. And we’re already two and a half years dealing with this. But they don’t tell their fans that. Also, they don’t tell their fans on the show of Rhonda and her family. The previous tenants who lived in the home, 2008, 2009, who had similar activity. I gave her contact info, and who they never reached out to. So, but they never say that. They never say, oh, by the way, previous tenants, we also learned or got record of a previous tenant who spoke of similar activity while they were present. They just moved out and didn’t tell anybody. That’s important information to any researcher. Oh, absolutely. Information. And they left that out conveniently. So, there’s that.

Yeah, and that I feel. Amplified the situation between you and Tina and things escalated from there for you both. Yeah. Which ultimately resulted in your separation.

Yeah, we did not need any more problems. And that’s what made Tina upset. It made me upset, but made Tina extremely upset because she was singled out. She was scapegoated more than me. Called different names, and epithets. Ridiculed, thought she was weird all because of that little orchestrated scene with her and Zach. Which in reality didn’t go that way. So Tina was done. I mean, I, Keith Lunder, as much as I was scared, frightened, and hated the activity that we experienced. As much as I do not like, as much as I dislike, for lack of a better word, demons or poltergeist, whatever. As much as I dislike them, I can’t find fault with them for being what they are. Okay, they are bred or born to do what it is, whatever they do. I don’t like it. I wouldn’t sign up for it ever. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy, but I understand.

Okay. Humans on the other hand, opportunists, like a paranormal investigator, I can’t forget it because you are like me. We’re human beings. Why would you go into a home, anybody’s home, and make it worse for them than it already is? Tina already got all these things we’re doing, you know, it’s almost like the Hippocratic Oath, right? The doctor takes an oath that thou shalt not willingly cause more harm to the patient. I  go to my doctor, I’m ailing or something’s ailing me, arm or something. The last thing the doctor wants to do, he touches me gingerly. He deals with me gingerly and doesn’t want to exacerbate the pain.

They get very reluctant and disappointed in themselves if they’re causing the patient, me or you or anybody, more pain. You know, if I have to leave the ER or leave the hospital room in more pain than I came in, they’ve not done their job. And they feel very remorseful about that. They really do. Some paranormal teams don’t feel that way. Ghost Adventures, not to pick on them, but they made our situation worse. And they had no, I’m sure. no remorse even today. To apologize or to say our bad. I don’t care about you not finding anything in our home, but that’s not my fault. You could have stood or come to our defense, even when the, social stratosphere of Twitter, Facebook, or attacking us.

You could have made your fans say, Hey guys, enough. You know, it’s not all about that. You know, we didn’t find anything. That’s not to put anything negative So leave them alone and they’re going to be all right. But no, they didn’t do none of that. They doubled down. Doubled down now, and went public out of their way, .Which they never normally did to other episodes ,to say, we don’t think  keith or Tina are telling the truth. They said that, based on them not finding anything. So that’s why I have a problem with them.

Yeah, I totally get that. And so, from that point, that was really the final straw for you and Tina.

Yeah, Tina was done. Tina was done with the paranormal at that point. She moved out weeks after that. And rightfully so, because spirits be damned, Tina to this day will not you know, I often get requests and asked when I do interviews like this or other shows, Hey, can we, can you get Tina to talk? I’m like, Tina’s done, dude. Tina’s, she’s done. wrote my books because I speak for both of us. I can call Tina right now. me and Tina we live in the same city. We have mutual friends. When my books came out, I let her know. And, she’s like, hey, you, speak for both of us. You’re telling both our stories. And because I know what they’re going to do. They’re going to make … Fool me once, You know, shame. Fool me twice, no shame on me. It was just crazy. So sad.

I really feel for Tina and I totally,  understand her perspective and the thing is, you guys reached out for help from numerous people, numerous people. The church let you down they said they’d get back to you, but they never did. But ultimately you did get some help with that one pastor. The 80-year-old gentleman. But the other thing that I found was really awesome was these other investigation teams that came in at the end.  The parapsychologist from England who came and spent time living in your house, investigating your house. From the minute, pretty much, they came into your house, things happened for them. And then the woman who had been.  Their investigation team who’d been monitoring your house for months remotely using the cameras. They came and stayed. And they caught events happening, like the woman’s cell phone flipped off the couch in front of her within a short space of time, after coming into your home. And these reports were made public. They were put out in the public. And they even went to the press about them, saying, hey, this house genuinely has these events happening in them.

Yeah, that’s the one silver lining of all this. I tell people I’m not disgruntled about Ghost Adventures because their failure allowed me to… Find these other teams. And these other teams especially Nikki and Carissa, who you met, lived in the home. And Steve Mara and Don Phillips, Nick Kyle, who flew all the way from over the ocean twice, lived in the home for two and a half weeks. and they saw and witnessed things, because things that they were reporting out to the world, they had their own stories to tell. You’re right, the phone flipping up in the air, that’s not me, that’s Carissa’s phone, that’s not my phone. Then Steve and Dawn saw the door opening and closing by itself upon as soon as they got to the house. The camera turning around on its own. They saw and witnessed. The 434 EVPs that the UK guys captured, Class A, Class B EVP’s. They have all that, that they documented, that they put forward out there to the world. It’s on my YouTube channel and theirs, there’s links to them in my book. And you’re right, they are now, or have substantiated, and even hearing it from their mouth, because Steve Meyer’s been doing this for 35 years, Don too, Nicki, 27 years. And even out of their mouth, they’re like, we’ve seen things before.

But we’ve never seen this. This is new textbook stuff. But a credit to them is their methodology. Yes. It was not ego. It was not being run by ego. Right. It was Steve came in there with a game plan, him and Don, that they had talked about before arriving. And once they arrived, they had to alter it a little bit. When Steve, and he says it’s in his book and his documentaries. “The minute we knew that these spirits were purposely,” the key word here is purposely, ” being elusive, we had to change our investigation. ” Meaning, these spirits are purposely trying to be, avoid being detected. They said there’s still a way to detect them, but now we have to change our way. The current way is not going to work. You cannot have an investigation, have one format. It’s not a one shoe fits all. It’s not a cookie cut. Every house is the same methodology. Every house is different, the occupants are different.

Why Ghost Adventures didn’t know that, who knows? Nikki and her team knew that. You’re right, they monitored the house. I’m talking about monitored remotely for about 8 months. Before they said, we’re going to come live in it. That was the plan. You read the book. That was the plan. The plan is to monitor it, get a treasure trove of data, then we’re going to finish it up by living there. That’s how you do it. Steve and Don did the same thing. They interviewed me for about three months, back and forth, like this. Question, question, question, questions. Researching about Bothell. Researching about Washington. Researching about the land underneath the house and all that stuff. Then they said, we’re coming. We’re on our way. We’re coming. And they said, we’re going to stay a week. The first time, and we’re gonna say a week and a half the second time. And then they brought Nick Kyle with them the second time. And those are different.

Living at a site, sleeping, brushing your teeth, combing your hair in the morning, showering. You’re taking a shower in one of the bathrooms that I was attacked in. You’re sleeping in a room where there’s been activity. You saw Carissa in the book. You’re sleeping in the rooms where there has been activity. I always sleep in, you know, the guest room in the master bedroom. There’s other rooms I never slept in that they’re sleeping in that had activity. And, you know, the armoire they got thrown in the hallway has been moved to the guest bedroom. That’s where they’re sleeping. And it’s a little bit apprehensive to sleep in a room. Even if you’re an investigator, you’re like, Okay, I want evidence, but I don’t want good.

You know, it’s kind of… I want evidence, but don’t scare me. I want evidence, but don’t scare me. Kind of slide it to me if you will. No, man, you don’t get to choose what evidence we get. Okay, I’m gonna go to sleep now. So yeah, and all that plays into evidence gathering. So you’re right. That was a silver lining for us. Now it’s out there on the internet for the world to see and it’s blowing minds. It’s still blowing minds. It’s still.

Yeah, absolutely. And after all the investigations and the vindication for you and Tina, it must have been a huge release for you. To have that vindication.  I mean, you knew the truth of what you were experiencing. But to now have it out in the public must have felt like a closure of sorts for you.

yeah, and that closure, that substantiation I’ve never, I’m not trying to, nor will I ever achieve it to get a hundred percent of the world’s population to believe our claims, right? That’s not my goal, but it is good. And it was good to get substantiation. Verification and acknowledgement from reputable Yes, investigators and researchers and they got their distractors to every investigator has his or her distractors.  But to get it from two different teams, and if you read the book you’ll notice it was timed by me. Each team didn’t know when the other team was coming. And they did not interface, meaning compare notes or hand each other. Right. No, it’s the North America and there’s the uk both teams did investigations differently and they all got treasure trove evidence.

And so now they can go out and Hey, that Keith the house? Keith and Tina? Yeah, it’s,  it’s legit. And that felt good. That was good. And that for me was, that told me I can now move out. Right. I did not get run out of my house. I wanted to. I’ve had thoughts of. I did not run out of the Bothell house with my tail between my legs. I lost a lot. I lost my girlfriend. I had to pay a lot of money to repair the damages to the house. I still have activity wherever I go today, albeit to a lesser degree. I was going to say … So there’s scars that are forever will be there. But in the end I left standing up. I wasn’t carried out. Tina, to her credit, left standing up. She wasn’t carried out either. And all this stuff I documented while living there in conjunction with the evidence the other teams have found. Yeah, it’s been great. I can talk about it now. I can feel good about the story now. Versus then, you remember then when I was, I didn’t want to talk about the Bothell House.

While living in the Bothell house, one of those at first, but I could talk about it now. So, yeah, that was my exit to go. I said, okay, I can go now. All right. It was never, I’m going to stay here forever or anything. No, it was like, this is the chapter, this is where it ends. Okay. The husband and wife who live in the Bothell house now know the house was haunted. We did not have that luxury. We did not have the choice to stay. Do we still want to move in that house, knowing all this stuff? Or no, that would have been a choice I would like to have been given, but no harm, no foul. So nobody can come back to Keith Lindner and say, You didn’t tell us the house was haunted.

Yeah, I did. Google is your friend. Okay. Yeah. Keith Lindner, Google, Bothell, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So, I have realtors who call me now who just sell homes. And when they sell a home. near the Bothell House, sometime in the Bothell House, they’re like, Whoa, whoa, man, there’s a haunted house on this street? And they call me, and they’re like, Oh, really? I tell you, yeah, yeah. So it’s, it’s out there on the internet, and it’ll never go away. It’s never going to go away. Right. Once it’s on the internet. So, and to my knowledge, I have not talked to them since they moved in. To my knowledge, the home, the husband and wife have not had activity.

Now, the word activity, I use very loosely, because activity could be, defined in many ways. Are you saying, if you mean burning Bibles and crosses and all that, of course they’re not going to have that. But if you mean low level, minimum activity, hard to detect light may go off prematurely or while a bulb may prematurely expire or missing item or something. Or noise. I’m pretty sure they’ve had something they had to raise their eyebrow about like, and just keep on about their business. But so far so good. I’m not going back. I don’t need to go poking my head around. You guys having activity yet? Right. I’m not that guy. I don’t need that. You know, I’ve been asked to do that. And I get frustrated when people ask me to do that. I’m like, no, I’m not. My four years is four years, that’s all I need.

Four years in a war zone I think is more than sufficient. If that house never has activity again, it does not take away from me and Tina’s activity. No, absolutely. You should be glad it doesn’t have activity again. We’re like, woo wee, you guys had enough activity for a millennium. Right. For that house.

So you, came away from there and you wrote three books, is that, what you said?

Yes, yeah, three books, yes.

And did you find that writing the books was cathartic for you?

Man, it was, it was tough getting through the Bothell Hell House oh, yes. This is the part after Tina left, with just me living in the home the die KL written on the walls because I had to, when I write my books, I have to go back there mentally.

Yes, absolutely.

Not living in the home anymore, but I have to. Convey what I was feeling back then. I want to fill in that what I was feeling back then. I want the reader to understand because nobody should take this stuff lightly. Nobody should be wishing this happened to them. You’ve read my books and you still wish this happened to you. I didn’t do my job, but it was hard to get through certain chapters. Full disclosure, certain chapters took extra time to write because Even just the fact of writing them created activity around me.

I was just going to ask that. Thank you.

Especially book two. Book two, Attachments for that reason is named Attachments: Poltergeist of Washington State Part 2 it’s 20 percent of me still living in a Bothell home. 80 percent of me moving out, being followed. But writing that book, about the water puddles, or if you’ve never read it yet, there’s a water puddle coming. The visitations, the shadowy figures, the succubus visits, write that stuff and then go to bed after you write it. It’s just a double negative. It’s just, Oh, I’m writing about the poking and the prodding and the shadowy figures that manipulate me and molest me while I sleep. Oh, it’s 3am. I guess I go to bed now. And they’re like waiting for you . Yeah. the book, at a certain time, start writing itself. It just really flows.

Book two was harder to write and it’s darker than book one. People are like, no way. Book two is darker than book one. Mm-hmm. Book one is activity, physical manifestation. Book two is the darker,

I’m actually going to read that now that I’ve finished your first one, I’m actually going to read it.

You should read it.

I’m sorry I didn’t get a chance to read it before we spoke.

Oh, that’s fine, but I mean, book one’s enough, like what, almost 500 pages. But no, book two, it’s tough.

Maybe after I’ve read it you’re okay, we could come back and discuss your second book.

Oh yeah, I’ll come back. Yes, definitely. If that’s okay. Book two? Yeah, book two needs its own two-hour or whatever, because it’s a lot. It’s talking about the people that’s found in the home, and it answers the question of, will I or was I followed?And what does that mean? Why was the house? Awesome. We know why the house was haunted. That, it’s quite amazing.

Before I close this episode, would you like to share with my listeners where they can reach you and the names of your books? And also I will have links to these on this episode’s page of our podcast website, www.walkingtheshadowlands.com. If you, my listeners, don’t have time to write these down, you can go to that page and get Keith’s information from there as well.

Yeah, so once again, thanks for having me. It was a great dialogue. It’s always much easier to talk about these things when a person or other is familiar with the story or has read the book, so thank you. Yeah, your listeners can find my books on Amazon in any country, any language. The Bothell Hell House is book one that’s where all this started. Attachments, Poltergeist of Washington State is book two, part two. And then book three to close out the trilogy, if you will, is not a nonfiction book, it’s a technical book. It’s called Poltergeist, The Night Side of Physics. Book three deals with the mechanics, the machinations of a haunting such as this.

Not only my haunting or me and Tina’s haunting but poltergeist cases in general. We analyze, or I analyze and take apart Apport, teleportation, water puddle phenomena, Spontaneous  combustion. How are all poltergeist able to do what it is they do? Yeah, how do they do that stuff? What does the you know, what does science say or don’t say? And then my YouTube channel has videos, 500 videos on my YouTube channel. About the Bothell House. Start at the very beginning, and work your way upward. Cause it’s a video diary.

And you can find me on YouTube. Just type in Keith Linder or Keith L. And you’ll find me. it’s easy to get a hold of me contact wise. My email address is on my YouTube channel. Definitely my books, my email address. I would say those areas start there. But a lot of information, a lot.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Keith. Again, thank you for agreeing to talk with me. It’s been really interesting and I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Keith. And I’ll be talking to you again.

Yeah, thank you. This was great. Thank you.

As we bring this episode to a close, we’ve journeyed deep into the heart of the paranormal with Keith Linder, the man who lived to tell the tale of the “Bothell Hell House.” The chilling accounts of poltergeist activity, inexplicable phenomena, and the unrelenting presence of the supernatural have left us questioning the boundaries of our understanding.

Whether you find yourself a steadfast believer or a sceptical observer, Keith’s story invites contemplation about the unknown forces that may lurk on the fringes of our reality. The Bothell Poltergeist phenomenon continues to perplex and fascinate, and our exploration into this otherworldly saga has only scratched the surface.

We extend our gratitude to Keith Linder for sharing his experiences and opening a portal into a realm where the ordinary and the extraordinary collide. As we step away from the Bothell Hell House, the echoes of its mysteries linger, leaving us with a sense of wonder and curiosity about the enigmatic forces that shape our world.

Thank you for joining us on this spectral  Halloween eve’s journey. Until next time, keep your mind open, your senses sharp, and perhaps, just perhaps, you might catch a glimpse of the extraordinary in the midst of the ordinary. Stay tuned for more captivating stories and enigmatic encounters on our Walking the Shadowlands podcast. Until next time, I’m your host Marianne bidding you farewell from the Shadowlands.

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe and share it with friends, so you don’t miss out on any episode. Like and follow for teasers of our upcoming shows. Also follow us on all the social media platforms. Check out our Facebook page. Wtshadowlands, our Instagram feed of the same name and our Twitter feed, at Shadowlands10. TikTok under Walking_the_Shadowlands. Also, we have a YouTube channel under Walking the Shadowlands as well.

This podcast is available on all free podcasting platforms. Just look for Walking the Shadowlands. Also, if you have Alexa, simply say these four words open, Walking the Shadowlands, and Alexa will play our latest episode for you. If you don’t have a smartphone, don’t worry. You can listen to the episodes from the podcast website, www.walkingtheshadowlands.com. For those hearing impaired. There’s a full written transcript of each episode on the website so you don’t miss out at all.